March 09 - there is no snooze button on a baby that needs milk.....!

[meep]

over here ladies

hello everyone

bit of breathing space here...the holidays are proving realy tiring!!!

all the babies seem well ahead of our lo, but then she was born near to last of the group. She has rolled to tummy once only and did not like it so not trying it again. She really likes to be upright, mostly to see what is happening and also probably to do with her reflux problem.

re slings, I have had my baby bjorn for eight years and found it fine, even up to 6 months facing out, for short periods. Then a couple of years ago we got the mothercare back carrier, and it is great from 5-6 mths, especially for dads to cart them about.

the wedding was great by the way, but guess who screamed through the church service!!! i had to duck in and out constantly, with dd1 playing up a bit too. It all got very teary when absent people were mentioned. The reception was the best fun, the kids got tired at about 11.00pm, so we drove home, arriving at 1.00am. Probably the only time we'll ever be so well dressed as a family, it took several shopping trips to kit everyone out.

today took lo to hv to be weighed, and was relieved to see she has gained weight, so we will continue the gaviscon for now. She comes in at 12 lbs, so only just under 9th percentile, and still in her moses basket at nearly 4 months! such a teeny tiny thing. However her screams are off the decibel scale for sure!!!

yarnie hope spike is ok now.

oh meant to say hope your scan went ok loli.

poor slick it sounds like a good break will be exactly what you need.

meep don't think of work so soon!!! enjoy baby time, i love reading books to them too. And make the most of your good sleeps! I had lo go once through the night recently but not since. she ends up in our bed with me squished over to the very edge. Then i don't sleep well but am too tired to put her back in the basket.

sometimes i catch myself wishing the years to pass, so sad really.

megzyboo thanks for that tip. Will try one. The ones we have been using are Tommee Tippee Closer to Nature ones.

slick hope your break goes well. Sorry to hear that you've been having a crap time.

Love the photos grinning. Boy is that some bump!

Yarnie opposite problem here. George is going for a week at a time without a poo and when he does there is a massive explosion. Thankfully the last couple of times has been at home. I did mention this to the HV and she said it is quite common in BF babies.

meep well done for getting some sleep. Enjoy it!

kanga glad to hear you had fun at the wedding. It must have been nice to have your family all dressed up.

Another crap night here last night. Managed to get George to sleep at 9pm rather than 11pm which was a bonus and then it was 12pm, 3am, 5am and 7am. I couldn't settle him back to sleep a couple of times and ended up feeding him again to get him back off.

My mum had cut an article out of one of the weekend supplements for me related to babies and sleep. It said that babies between the age of 4 and 6 months are physically capable of sleeping through the night and night feeds should slowly be eliminated. It said that babies will naturally feed more in the day to compensate for this.

How the hell do you cut night feeds out is what I want to know? If I have a crying baby and boobies that will shut him up then I am going to feed him. Do any of you manage to get them back off to sleep without feeding? (if so, how please? I could really do with a decent stretch of sleep ).

Pintofstella I would love to know how to eliminate night feeds, too! We feed two or three times a night and, like you say, in the fog of sleep it's difficult to come up with a strategy to settle which doesn't involve boobs. I laugh in the face of "shush, pat". I try that and Spike just looks me in the eye and seems to say "I don't think so, lady".

pint I don't know about getting them off to sleep without feeds, I snuggle up with Gabe on the sofa side-lying at about 5.30 (though it was 8.30 last night thanks to the teething) and he has about 30 min to an hour feed which seems to keep him going. I transfer him from our room to his brother's room at 11 and give him a dreamfeed then if he's restless. He usually wakes for his first feed at 5.50.

yarnie poor you for dealing with toxic nappies!

Please send us good vibes, we're due to fly out to see my parents in Spain in Sept, but there was a mix-up with G's passport application and IF it all goes to plan this time it should arrive the week we fly. Argh! We desperately need this holiday, DH has been doing non-stop nights since mid July and we barely see each other!

Lots of good vibes, laumiere. That sounds very stressful. I'd be on tenterhooks. We're uhming and ahing about a holiday - wondering whether we should just "staycation" at home instead, and schedule some nice things to do to make sure we don't just catch up on the housework.

I think Pint and I are not necessarily after tips on how to get them off to sleep without feeding at the beginning of the night, more how to settle them when they wake in the middle of the night. Personally, I feed Spike as much as possible before putting him down for the night, in the hope that it will see him through.

Day 5 with the diarrhoea here...

the mums I know who bf said that their lo's used to cluster feed in the evening and that helped them sleep - though how you make a baby feed when they don't want to must be just as difficult as getting them to sleep when they just want the boob. So no words of wisdom from me - just hats off those of you still bfeeding and symapthies to those with night wakings.

Rosie now gets very unhappy when it is sleep time. She is tired but as soon as I put her down and walk away she howls. If I come back she looks at me and grins. 'tis heartbreaking as she just wants to be able to see me. It only lasts about a minute or so (most times) then she just makes noise (not crying) until she drops off.

Find it really hard when I have the super-klingon that is dd1 wanting and needing attention at the same time. But she does help if Rosie gets upset and giggles at her and kisses her. Though I am sure this can sometimes make Rosie howl even more

kanga I am definitely going to make the most of my baby time before | head back to work. With dd1 I was all over the place so going back was actually a good thing. This time I am so enjoying it all that I wish I could afford longer off.

lau fingers crossed for Gabe's passport.

Still very erratic sleeping She woke about every hour to hour and a half last night.

Still, I did manage to watch two whole films back to back until about 2am. I am beyond zombie level now, and just to add to the joy seem to have an explosive runny tum problem

The bump photo is the only one I have sadly. And it's too small a file to get printed, but at least I have it on here

Slick We have the leg thumping here too! What is that all about??? I reckon she was a whale in a previous life and still thinks she has a tail to thump up and down.

Yarnie Hope the bug passes for you soon. I'm also having the same problems as you and Pint with the trying to settle in the night. I'm wondering if she's having a growth spurt which has just coincided with going in the cot...

I think A can go to the back of the class. She's only rolled over once, and only really goes on to her side now, although she did roll on the sofa (probably cos it's squishy) by accident. Not really into grabbing anything other than my hair, although I did giver her her hairbrush the other day which she held for a minute or two. Anything I give her gets dropped at the mo!

P.S I left A for the first time on Friday, just for an hour and a half to get my hair cut. It was just as traumatic as I expected - I cried as I was leaving her, and all the way into town... apparently she had a meltdown too. Wonder if she'll be any better in a couple of weeks when I have to leave her for half a day!!

Sorry for mammoth post

pintofstella and yarnie:

I haven't always been successful myself but i used to try reducing the milk feed by a minute every 2 nights or so, if BF, or you can try reducing quantity of formula. do everything gradually though, and talk to your hv for specific advice. i think our lo genuinely still needs night milk even at 4 months as she is only 12 lbs, and i can hear her tummy rumbling while i feed her poor thing!

Have you tried giving cooled boiled water to your babies to help settle them? The idea is that they eventually can't be bothered waking up for it! Also they make up for it by having more milk in the daytime as well.

ds3 has exzema, so he got used to having formula in the night to settle him. he is now 5 years old and only has milk at bedtime now. these things sort out eventually, but it does seem neverending in the beginning. be patient and give them time!

i use dummies on the 2 dd which i know is frowned upon, but hey i need a break too!!! the time will come to get rid of the dummy...

Don't know if this would work at night for your LOs but with Mae I will feed her once when she wakes up but if she wakes up after that I tend to put her up to my boobs but put the dummy in her mouth, quite often she just snuggles into me and drifts back off. The only tricky thing is getting her to let go of my top or hair or whatever she is holding while asleep!

Mae alwso raises and slams her legs down but it seems to be to release wind as it quite often stops after she has had a massive trump!

Mae's nappies are getting a bit smelly now she is eating more and my goodness me the faces she is pulling when pooing are hilarious.

Sorry not had chance to respond to everyone, have promised I will get my bum to the shops, will wrap a birthday pressie, sort the washing and get to my parents this afternoon!

Insanely busy here with all the family but B loves the attention- he is adorable! Now rolling with a vengeance, so much that he keeps waling up and cant roll back?! Hope he learns quickly...
Hope all are well

Jollyjoanne That dummy trick sounds like a good one! Unfortunately, Spike has stopped taking a dummy, so I'm not sure I could fool him. Might be worth a try - in the fog of sleep, it could work.

Kanga I'm virtually asleep when I feed Spike, so I'm not sure I'm with it enough to finely tune the breastfeeding to that extent. Sounds like it would work well if you were formula feeding.

We're off to the docs this morning as we have reached day 7 of the diarrhoea. I've not seen any signs of dehydration, thankfully, but I'm now worried that he can't be getting much nutrition from his milk as it passes through him so quickly.

Yarnie I am so with you on that one. If George would go back to sleep with a "there there" and a "sush now" I would be sorted.

George was awake every couple of hours last night and I had difficulty settling him back down after he had fed. I had to go and get DH from DS1's room at one point as I was exhausted and contemplating putting him up for adoption .

How did Spike get on at the doctors?

laumiere hope the passport arrives in time. There is always the option to collect it from a passport office if push comes to shove.

meep I don't know about cluster feeding but George likes to feed frequently through the day and the night too! Still, I know from with my experience with DS1 that it's important not to get too hung up about it and that it's only a short space of time in the great scheme of things .

grinning well done on venturing out to the hairdressers. I am planning on going shopping with my mate on Tuesday and leaving both boys with DH. DH didn't look too enthralled when I 'asked' him mind .

kanga thanks for the tip about the milk. I am going to try and get DH to stay up and try George with a bottle of formula but I always hear him when he wakes up so I end up sticking him on the booby. I hadn't heard the tip about giving them water. I don't think that I'd have the energy to walk downstairs to the kitchen in the middle of the night but it's worth knowing. Thank you.

jolly unfortunately George won't take a dummy but he might be fooled in the middle of the night .

I need to go and get a new outfit as I'm godmother at my friend's Christening a week on Sunday. I have got wardrobes full of size 10 clothes but need to lose another 2 stone before I can fit in them. How f*ing depressing is that . On the upside I have lost a stone so far by doing Slimming World.

George is doing lots of rolling from back to tummy now although he's not quite sure to do once he gets there.

I sent DH out to Argos this morning to buy a Fisher Price Jumperoo as they are on offer. He's getting too big for his swing now and I need him to entertain himself in order to dash round and do my jobs, particularly as he's such a crap sleeper in the day.

On that note, he's just woken up after a mammoth 2 hour nap so must dash....

pintof I have a wardrobe full of size 10/12/14 & 16 clothes. Started really cutting back at the beginning of the week and walking a lot more (about 4miles a day if I can) and the weight is shifting. I would be happy to be a size 14 again tbh - I don't mind being a wee bit round just not fat like I am now

Meant to say - we have leg slamming too - but not accompanied by wind release! My theory is that because Rosie spends all her time holding her feet and eating them, she gets annoyed because they are encased in a grobag at night and therefore slams her feet down in disgust!

meep I'm also trying to do as much walking as poss too! George loves being out in the pram and I have a dog as well so it kills two birds with one stone. I'm trying to walk for 2 hours twice a week and do two step classes too.

George loves his Jumperoo! Highly recommended!

Hi all ? have been trying to keep up with posts, but just haven?t had the energy to respond.

I was reading the board last night, and DP said rather wistfully, ?Will you tell your Mumsnetters that I?ve been a really good partner recently??

And he has ? he?s gone so far above and beyond the call, it?s not even funny. My back put me in bed for 10 solid days, where he took care of me and Rhys single-handedly. Now I?m up and around, but still can?t lift anything heavier than a bottle of water, so he?s still on call for all the night feeds, changes, etc. Luckily my parents arrived a couple of days ago, which has allowed him to go back to work, but still ? I am VERY lucky to have a DP like him!

Rhys had his 4month jabs yesterday, and is distinctly under the weather ? fever and diarrhea and general glumness. Plus he?s teething, I think. He?s curled up in Grandma?s arms at the moment, poor little sausage.

Yarnie and pintofstella, I am SO sympathetic to your plight. Your nights sound like ours ? bed at 10 or 10.30 (and it?s a struggle), up at 2, 4 and 6 is the average for Rhys. We have to begin transitioning to formula next week, and despite all evidence in our little group that nothing in life is guaranteed, I?m hoping against hope that the change in diet will help him sleep better.

And I have no idea how to calm him without feeding him ? as you said, he gives me that look when I shush and pat as if I?m an utter and complete idiot/sadist.

Meep, will be thinking of you next week as we will also begin sleep training/controlled crying. I?m not sure how it will go, and I?m not sure how DP will fall in with it, but I am tired of the rod we?ve made for our own backs, whereby it takes a solid hour of walking, nursing, etc., before putting him down asleep. Now we have to take the plunge and get him to accept being put down while he?s awake?

Kanga, that?s interesting about the milk/water ? though, like yarnie, I doubt I?d be coordinated enough to get it done in the wee hours!

Laumiere, fingers crossed for the passport! Still no travel plans on this end ? though I?m heading back to work on Sept. 1 and already have my first trip scheduled ? three days in the US. Feeling very already about being away from the Rhysling.

Crap ? still tons to respond to, but need to come up with something for an impromptu potluck lunch with the neighbours. Happy Saturday to all!

Haven't posted for ages either as have been feeling too exhausted and generally negative about things. DD2 still crying and waking a lot in the evenings and has started more frequent night waking too. On the positive side, she is now on 3 bottles a day so my parents took both the DDs yesterday for 6 hours and I had my first real break in 4.5 months. Lovely!

Corgi Am going to start the sleep training at 6 months, although we're already doing a version of it - leaving to cry for ten minutes, picking up and cuddling until calm, putting back down and walking out. DD will generally go to sleep after the third attempt, but we've been doing it for ages and I thought the point was that they eventually stopped the crying completely. This is only in the evening period when I know she's had enough milk. If she wakes in the night, I feed her, which sometimes sends her back to sleep and sometimes doesn't

DD1 made me laugh the other day - she normally wakes once in the night and I put her back in to bed. She didn't wake one night and said to me in the morning, "Mummy, I forgot to wake up last night."

Meep and Pint I'm with you on the fitness regime. Desperately want to get back in shape. Went to yoga this week (first exercise since being pregnant ). It turned out to be an hour and a half class and I had to leave after an hour because I was so knackered!

corgi we're not really doing sleep training here - it is more that she has to have a howl if I have to deal with toddler dd1. I think that is why she is normally quite good at getting herself to sleep - the last few naps/sleeps have been great without a peep from her. I think she only howls if I misjudge the timings and either put her down too early or too late.

I hope it works out for you - much more difficult to hear them crying with your first - not nice with your second and if I could avoid it I would. When dh is here I do stay with her if she's upset and do lots of tummy rubbing and she seems to like that.

oh - meant to say, your dp sounds like a star - a big round of applause from MN for him

Elsy just back from pushing the double buggy up a big big hill - am shattered!

meep i had the same experience with ds2, he just had to cry himself to sleep, well scream sometimes, whilst i dealt with ds1. i feel way to fragile now so baby gets all the attention, plus she screams louder than i have ever heard, clever girl...

well done to mr kelly for actions above and beyond the call.

elsy how nice that you had that time to yourself, hope it helped with the negative feelings.

as for the too tired to get to kitchen mummies, could you put the cool boiled water and a sterilised bottle by your, or their, bed? i understand your reluctance: i used to put the measured amount of formula/water by my bed for night use...anything to avoid traipsing downstairs in the early hours!!!

Not posted on here before, but have realised that I can't do this "mum of 2" thing all by myself, and need mumsnet support! Hope you don't mind me joining the March mums (DD was due in Feb).

Having read through the last few pages of posts I already feel better.

My DD (Rosie) was born in early March, and is doted on by her big brother who is 2.8 - so much so that they have exchanged colds for the last 2 months. As a result I'm not sure when we will get her 4month immunisations done.

Madam's feeding is completely up the wall, roughly 3 hoursly (BF) but then 10.30 pm formula feed and awake at 2am and 4am wanting feeds, after whioch she isn't bothered if she doesn't feed again until 9.30am. It's driving me crazy - I'd like her to sleep through to 3am and then be ravenous at 7am and start the day like she means to continue. I'll gove the cool boiled water thing a try - but as other have said, when you're insanely tired (and trying not to allow the howls to wake DC!) it's difficult not to resort to BF.

Unlike DS she's a very fractious feeder - forever pulling off - distracted by things or offended by my letdown.

Only good thig is that she will take the bottle. DS refused it until he was nearly 5 months, but then NUK bottles worked a treat, plus keeping the milk really warm. So wirth DD we wnet straight onto NUK. That said, I can't remember how one is supposed to do the sterilising / making feeds up thing - in terms of how long you can leave things. Surely if everyone followed the Dept Health guidelines to the letter then no mum with baby on bottles would leave the house?

Getting her settled in the evening is difficult, after 45mins feeding she looks so peaceful, and then wails when I leave and smiles and chats to me when I return. However having created a rod for my own back with DS, I don't pick her up and cuddle her unless she goes ballistic.

As for sleeping during the day - how I envy those mums with babies who sleep. Rosie can survive on 1 hour sleep a day: normally from 8.30am - 9.15, and then a couple of 10min catnaps. I'm exhausted by the end of the day.

Hey everyone - nice to catch up on everyone's news! It's also comforting to see that so many of us are in the same boat with feeding / nights etc. I'm starting to wean from boob to bottle this week as I have to go back to work in 5 weeks time and Penny will be in nursery 3 days a week, from 9 - 5. We're dropping the 11am feed from boob to bottle first, but she hates it, and it's becoming a real struggle. God knows how we're going to get her soley on a bottle by mid Sept. And to be honest, it's making me feel a little sad, that breast feeding will be coming to an end by then and already just missing today's feed made my boobs rock hard and uncomfortable.

And how will it work with the night feeds? Pan used to be a great sleeper (just one night feed until 3.5 months) and then for the past month or so, she's gone back to 2 or 3 wakings between 7pm and 7am. At the moment I just feed her on the boob as that gets her back to sleep, but what do I do when she's on the bottle all the time? Do I feed her every time? Or try and shush/pat? I can't imagine she will fall asleep so easily on the bottle as I think half the reason she wakes is because she likes the snuggliness of boobs... oh god I don't know.

And then there's solids which we're going to introduce in a couple of weeks too! Argh!

jaz2

Welcome and i hope we can help.

I know what you mean dd1 was an angel, fed and slept between 4 hourly feds. I didn't realise this until devil child dd2 arrived when dd1 was 3.8yrs.

DD2 hated all milk would scream for hours for no reason i could find, until 18wks when i weaned her and she finally nice.

DS is deffinatly a mixture of his sisters drinks milk like dd1 and sleeps all night like dd2 (goes from 6 to 6) and has done since about 9wsks.

I did find with him i had to be very firm about fed times (so they didn't clash with school pickup & dropoff times). So i spent a weeks of feeding at 6 to 7am, 10 to 11am, 2 to 2.30pm then around 6pm.

When ds went through a stage of waking at 4am i would take him downstairs and cuddle and dose with him until 6am as i knew if i fed him at 4am he would be a bugger all day. It only took a couple of days before he went back to sleeping until 6am.

Can you go back to bed when your dh/p gets up at the weekend for an hour or so to help to catch up on your sleep while he looks after the kids. I do this.

Will your dd sleep in you pram while walking.

Hey Y'all! Sorry haven't had chance to post the holidays are just so busy all the time. We are away for our break to Peebles Hydro tomorrow and my eldest DD and I are trying to pretend that the cold my DH had, then DD2 then HB had, isn't now making its presence felt with us! I am going no matter what!!!!

So many posts to catch up on but in a nut shell I'm so sorry for all those who are having such a hard time still with the night feedings and wakings or even just trying to get them to sleep in the first place! We still can't call it with HB but as a rule he is doing much better esp since he has upped his solids to lunch and dinner (still small amounts tho) but it seems to make the difference with him. He is teething like a maniac tho and is still like the excorcist baby. The washing is unreal.

We still have DD2 waking through the night on times tho, so we feel like it's going to be a long time yet before we get some proper sleep and God knows how it will work when HB moves in with DD2. She's such a light sleeper and if she cries for her dummy, Jesus, she like Foghorn Leghorn II. (DD1 + FL I!) Anyway, Kanga, turns out that dummes aren't frowned upon any more because they make them differntly now and apparently they are good for the baby's er...head plates moving out and into shape. Oh God, don't ask me, that's what I was told. They are still a pain in the arse when they are under the cot in the pitch black at 3am tho..... Thank God HB has found his thumb.

Incidentally, we always take a flask of boiled water (warm), a bottle and the powder with us to bed as it is just easier to do there.

Hey Meep was thinking about you the other day as we went to 5 Sisters Zoo. OMG how much does that place SMELL?? Still, once we got through the snakes and lizards (very warm day, made smell worse, not good timing for DD2 who was munching on a piece in her buggy at the time) and then tore-arse through the bat section (thought LO's would have nightmares, all dark, red and stinky!) then got out into the 'fresh' air. But we enjoyed it all and was a good day out although I always feel a bit sad when I've been to a zoo seeing birds and animals couped up - don't mind for conservation purposes obviously, but sad all the same. But like you said, a good size for taking kids around and not nearly as hard work as Edinburgh zoo.

As for getting fit. OMG I had to go get a swim suit yesterday (and today as failed yesterday) and I nearly left the shops greetin' (crying) The state on me. I look like my 65 year old mother! (No offence to her, but at least she's 65). But jesus, the extra flesh I could handle but the saggy skin with it? I am getting my arse in the swimming pool because if I thought this was it for life I'd never swim again and never have sex again, it just makes me feel so unatractive! It's not so bad with the clothes on, but oh dear, when the kit comes off...

Anyway, have packed up most of the house for our couple of days away, (I swear we'd be as well going away for two weeks) so I just hope it all works out ok.

Corgi sorry your back is still sore - is such a nightmare. But yay to DH for being fab!

Elsy Sorry you are having such a hard time and I hope things pick up for you soon.

Sending everyone else lots of sleepy vibes for their little ones.

Anyone got a cure for a snoring DH? (apart from divorce).

Sorry that sum was meant to say (DD1 = Foghorn Leghorn I)

And also meant to welcome Jaz2 Always room for one more.