Sept 08: We'll soon be weaning, and of a full nights sleep we're dreaming ......

[ILikeToMoveItMoveIt]

Hello ladies.

Pull up a chair, grab a biscuit and lets start talking about puree vs blw and sleep deprivation

Hopefully With each feed, try going back to basics and switching breasts when he looses interest or falls asleep. Keep the feed going rather than feeling grateful in a sleepy haze that it is over. It might help.

We had a pretty shite night too. I think we may try re-introducing the dreamfeed tonight as it's the 4th night in a row M has woken for an extra feed.

An extra feed is a bummer, but that's fine compared to the taking an hour to settle at 4am. He hasn't done that for ages. It doesn't really help that I'm not feeling too great at the moment either.

M's sleep has been so inconsistant and dh and I are so knackered that can really understand why people resort to early weaning to try and get their lo to sleep through the night (and I never thought I would say that, and not that I am advocating early weaning either - iyswim)

Oh well, it's a new day. And you never know, M may sleep through the night tonight. Did anybody just see that pig fly past?

ditto ILTMIMI

Too tired to write my own post and your kind of fits zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sorry Hopefully and ILTMIMI to know that you've had awful nights. I feel tempted to complain about the fact that Diego has settling into feeding twice a night, 11 to 12 and 3 to 4, but I won't because I know how far, far much worse it could be. Gulp.

About rolling over, Diego still only does it by chance and only if he is put tummy down somewhere relatively soft like a bed - and he always looks completely baffled afterwards. He has however developed an incredible repertoire of chatter, singing, screeches and noises, which he uses with deafening success. He also has started to turn when he hears his name.

On the subject of names, Carriebo, it is for life, so if you feel strongly that you'd like call your LO by his second name, I would not hesitate to change it now, as later it will be more difficult. The short trial period idea sounds like a good one.

I wanted to consult with you ladies regarding bottle feeding: I would like to introduce a bottle of formula, because I want to be sure that he will take it when the time comes, and because I am rubbish at expressing AND hate doing it. What feed would you say is the best to start him with? And what formula would you recomnend?

Snowlight thanks for the tip/reminder. I think I do give in to the temptation to put him down when he drifts off after a short feed, and really if I kept it going I might get a bit longer before the next waking. When we did the 'dream'feed it was a good hour, with a nappy change in the middle to keep him awake, so I need to replicate that if I'm going to have any chance of a decent sleep after it.

pacita Not sure anyone can recommend a particular formula. They are all pretty much the same so you may as well begin with the cheapest and change only if it unsettles him. However the stage 1, newborn (i.e. not hungry baby) will be the most gentle on the tummy.

As for what time, well you know how bfing works and that really your body gets the most accurate messages in the evening and night, but tbh, your bfing is well established enough for it to be any feed you like.

btw I would define 10-11, and 3-4 as waking once (i.e at 3-4), unless you go to bed at 9pm and get up at 5?

Thanks starlight. I'll try him with formula on the going to bed feed, I think. That way his dad can send him to sleep, which will be nice, and I can still get the 11 o'clock message to the old boobs.

Forgot to ask, how many ounces should they get in a feed? I really have no clue.

And are the pre-prepared cartons any good? I think I may use those, as I don't think I will get through a box of powder before it expires.

And yes, you are right - unless I go to bed ridiculously early (it's been known, though), it's only one night feed... Let's hope it lasts!

I liked the pre-prerared cartons for DS, but bear in mind they are priced at at least double the powder per mil.

For one feed a day there is no way of knowing, and it can vary from one day to the next. You can't keep the carton for long after it is opened though.

If the formula consumption begins to increase rapidly, then you might want to reign it in by offering more bfs.

Has D had a bottle yet?

Don't feel sorry for me, I was just having a self-indulgent moan! On the whole M has been a pretty good sleeper. I'm moaning because I don't feel well and this is the 5th time in 6 months that I've had a cold/viral type thing and it's getting very tiresome. Grrrrrr

Anyway enough me, me, me. Pacita like Starlight says, it doesn't matter what formula you use, although I think it's true to say that some formulas suit some babies better than others. And the only way to tell is by trial and error. Ignore the whole immunofortis gubbins on the packaging, it's all unfounded. If you introduce a bottle and your lo is happy with it (no constipation, sore tummy, vomiting etc) then stick with it.

The pre-prepared cartons are sterile, the powder isn't.

Um, try something like 4 ounces at first? I don't really know tbh. Trial and error I think!

carriebo - I don't really have any advice, but I would say if you are going to do it, do it now. Like others have mentioned, M has started to respond to his name.

Re formula, T has 6oz in his one bottle, and easily drains it. If he has that during the day (the odd time I've left him with DP) he'll then go his usual 3 hours before feeding again.

So sorry to hear of sleep woes - sending lots of good sleep vibes for tonight.

Pacita if it's any help, we use SMA gold and have been since she was 4 days old. C now takes about 200mls per feed (don't do oz sorry) and we have used ready made since day 4 too as we couldn't be faffed to mess about with powder that might not be sterile. beauty of ready made is that I could make up small bottle and if she wanted more, just top it up. With powder you have to make a larger bottle up 'just in case' then might throw it away.
[whispers, snowlight DP did show me how the ready made was only about 5pence more per bottle than powder, as I did query the price. He's not here today so can't tell you how he worked it out but he is very good at these sorts of things, so i'm sure he is right. Talking to other mum's who use powder, we don't spend that much more on formula than they do - certainly nowhere near double. The problem with price comparison is that powder is in grams, ready made in litres and certainly SMA gold doesn't tell you how many bottles per tin you can make, so it's really hard to compare, IYSWIM. DP was anal enough to sit down and calculate it to the last drop]

Hi all.

Re: ff. My sis used cartons from day 1 too and she told me the same thing about price imoscarsmum....

Have been wondering if its time to move ds2 off his comfort formula actually...its such as faff to make up feeds as and when I need them and sometimes I get it wrong, and a feed goes to waste because he doesnt wake up when expected/isnt that hungry etc. I might move onto ready made cartons too - I like the idea of them being sterile and it would be so much handier when we are out and about!

(I use Aptamil by the way Pacita and ds2 has 7/8oz each feed)

Ds2 is now waking early - 5am again this morning BUT asleep from about 7-7.30 so you cant have it both ways I guess. In fact, most nights we have to dreamfeed him his last bottle! My ds1 WOULD NOT dreamfeed.

Sorry for all the bad nights....they are the pits

pacita we use Cow and Gate hungry baby milk for 1 feed a day. i chose that one because it was the cheapest! I like it though as its got a wee ledge bit inside the box for levelling out the scoop, makes it very easy.
We give 1 8oz feed a day plus use another 2oz in food and we just got to the end of a tub in 4 weeks so it is worth buying the tub compared to the ready made cartons as they are about twice the price.

ILTMIMI ds2's sleep has been worse this last week after him starting solids (might be coincidence but no way of knowing) so don't wean if you don't want to just to try and make M sleep better.
Maybe try a few cartons first to see if there's an obvious one that M likes the best.

carriebo as a couple of others have said I think if you really don't think you can live with the name then try a trial of using his middle name. And do it now or don't do it at all.

We really need a bigger house. Since dropping the dream feed due to A not being interested in it he has woken up just after we've gone to bed every night and so I've thought I might as well feed him. So he's just feeding at the same sort of times as he was before but is getting his bottle at a different time. I'm sure we're disturbing him but we haven't got another room to put him in as if he was with ds1 then he'd disturb him and thats not going to be good either.

8oz per day plus a bit for food, 1 tin lasts 4 weeks. So one tin approx 30 8oz feeds for £7.20

1 8oz (250ml) carton = 53p
30 cartons = £15.90

I make that twice as much. I might have done that all wrong though. Using the 1 litre cartons will make it slightly cheaper though.

debids1 and 2 share a room. ds1 only woke up for the 1st night or 2 if f woke up crying but now sleeps through it.

carriebo as others have said if you are really not happy with his name i would change it, by his first birthday he will just be known as his new name, family and friends would of forgotten he was his name now iyswim? your dd wont take long to get used to it she is still young and will soon forget his old name if you decide to change.

Ds2 is still waking once or twice in the night, ive tried just putting his dummy in but his awake again an hour later so i just feed him.

He learnt to roll from tummy to back 1st and now can roll from back to front, he does'nt do it very often tho.

Whats going on with my boobs today they have'nt stop leaking

Argh - A has gone back to feeding every 3-4 hours in the night for the last 10 days or so. Except for the one night he didn't. Why oh why oh why...

I'm sure he's hungry as he swallows for up to 20 minutes which is longer than he's ever fed until the last couple weeks, but he's started fussing when put down after feed which he never did much before.

Last night was particularly bad as MrNC stayed up chatting to a friend and woke me up, so I told them to be quiet. They were, but then later he came in to apologise for waking me, waking me up! And then I didn't get back to sleep until just before A woke...

I'm trying to feed him as much as I can today, and will probably give him his first formula for a few weeks just so MrNC can do it and let me sleep. I worked out a few weeks back that A has been 97% breastfed, and about 99% breast-milk-fed. It's not like I'll get any brownie points for making it 99.5%...

the other problem with having ds1and2 in the same room is that I'd have to have a travel cot in our room for during the day as daytime sleeping deff wouldn't work so then thats more space taken up with stuff. Also ds1 has started wanting to play in his room and with a cot in there there wouldn't be a lot of space. Plus there's a single futon in there too which is new so wouldn't want to have to get rid of that. DH will just have to hurry up and get a job

Loving the baby duster - must invest in one of those to help with cleaning

I use aptamil easy digest which does not come in nice little cartons but I guess I would have stuck to the powder as I thought that would be cheaper too. I go through about a box a week on 5 feeds a day.

Carriebo I feel for you on this; my DH had doubts about her name just before we registered Erin and I wonder if he still has regrets. My friend's fiance uses a completely different name to that on his birth certificate and it does not seem to cause any probs. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do .

carriebo I have a cousin by marriage and only found out her "real" name at her wedding duting her vows!!!!

Her given name is Sarah Teresa, but is only and has only ever been called Teresa.

Do it now if you have decided to...babies start responding to their names round about now IIRC.

Carriebo Try using his middle name for a while to see if you do really like it. It might not be as good as you think it is. I sympathise as I didn't feel ready to name Robyn and got forced into picking it aS DH loves it (big batman fan) I cried for weeks as i felt he had taken something away from me. I often wish i had called her something else (Such as Scarlett as i think the shortened Scar is great) I am getting used to it but sometimes call her different names to see how it sounds.

Snowlight How do you find all thses wacky things? Could really do with the fluffy suit to keep my floor clean.

Just read the BLW book and have decided to go down that route. It all makes loads of sense and wished i had known about it when dd1 (13) was born as she is such a fussy eater. Plus you are supposed to feed them your healthy meals so it is a good excuse to actually cook something, not just reheat.

Debithescot I wasn't sure about cost of powder vs ready made but DP convinced me. I think he was anal enough to factor in wastage of powder when he made his calculations!
All i know is that C takes about 6 x 1 litre cartons per week (and that's only been since 20weeks, she was taking alot less early on) and that costs us about £11.40 a week. Assuming she got through one tub of powder per week, that costs about £8. £3 or £4 a week, or about £15 a month is a price I'm happy to pay for the convenience - no faffing about measuring scoops of powder and boiling kettles! It's the cost of a Starbucks latte a week really.
I can see that if you are only feeding one ff per day, it's not so much hassle to use powder though.

Sending good sleep vibes to all for tonight.

My question for today is this though. DD is getting frustrated lying in her pram and she's trying to sit up. She can't yet sit unaided and is 23 weeks tomorrow. If we go on long pram walks she will cry after a while and want to look around and be picked up. We have a proper pram base (iCandy) and didn't want to move her into pushchair until she's sitting up unaided as the pushchair is from 6 months and I wanted her to lie flat as long as possible.
Is it too soon to move her into her pushchair? I worry about her spine development but can't carry her around all the time! She's fine for about an hour then gets all 'let me out, let me out!!'

Whoops, I've been tilting up A's Maclaren for the past two months. He's strapped in quite tight so not much slumping...oh dear, have I set up future back problems?

imo does the iCandy tilt back at all? I'm sure lying at a slight incline isn't that bad, as long as your baby's head isn't slumped forward.

Last night we achieved our best night's sleep ever. A didn't wake till midnight (after going down at 7) and then 5. Those are his longest gaps ever. Although after the 5am feed he did a massive poo whilst getting comfy in his cot then fell fast asleep, we just let him sleep. Is that terrible?

Other news, acheived our first successful sleepy transfer from pushchair to cot today. He remained asleep in his cot for an hour and a half! I'm so getting the hang of this.

I also bought an M&S chicken salad and shared it with A at mother and baby group today as it coincided with A's lunchtime. Got lots of questions about BLW, no-one has heard of it. Felt a lot more confident about it with A providing a great demonstration.

Thank you all for the tips regarding formula feeding. Between all of you, I think you have used all the makes in the market, which means I will feel equally good at trying any of them. My lentil weaverish cousin has recomneded Holle, an organic, super-duper lentil weaver approved formula that is German, but as I have no idea where to get it (and the price tag would probably make one shudder) I am going to get some nice, portable and sterile cartons from the local sainsburys. I am getting quite excited about giving my boobs a small rest, and my DP is looking forward to giving Diego a chunky bottle (and not the pathetic dribbles that I used to express).

On the subject of buggies, Diego was 21 weeks today, but has been sitting quite upright in his bugaboo for about a month now. He likes to have a good look around while we're out. Like DG says, for as long as his head is not slumping forward he should be ok.

I am very impressed by the BLW feats accomplished by Alfredo. I must confess that the whole idea of weaning is both appealing and very daunting. Don't know where to start!

pacita my only additional advice is to introduce the bottle when Diego is Hungry. Once he's used to taking a bottle, move it to whichever feed will be more convenient. First thing in the morning might be the best time to start - he'll be chipper from a night's sleep and nice and hungry.

Thank you all for your advice re: names, I've been trying out the middle name so I'll keep you posted! However that issue has been overshowed by today's events...
Yesterday ds was ill, I was fairly sure it was bronchiolitis as I remember my friend's ds having it, and there's nothing they can do as its viral. But he was wheezy with it, and no better this morning, so took him off to the docs (where dd wet herself 4 times, but that's another story...). The doc listened to his chest, watched him breath, got some other equipment, did a few more tests...phoned the hospital, and next thing I know dd is being dispatched to chum's house, dh is on his way home from work and we're on the children's ward
He does have bronchiolitis, but the GP picked up that his breathing was too fast, and his blood oxygen too low. At hospital his oxygen was reading at the borderline level for needing to be admitted, but it picked up in the afternoon. He was monitored and saw a couple of docs and a nurse, and in the end we came home, but at one point it looked as though we might be in overnight with him on oxygen. I think one of the biggest worries is if they're too lethargic to feed, so end up needing a feeding tube. But ds had two big feeds while we were there, plenty of nappy output, and was flirting with the nurses! Still very scary to be taken seriously though, and we haven't reached the day where the illness peaks, so it might not be the end of the story just yet.

Sorry, epic post, but epic day.