July 2008 - Rolling, rolling, rolling, our babies just keep on rolling!

[sweetkitty]

Sparkly new thread

gilly - x-posts Bethany does the same thing fussing about latching on and off she will latch off look about latch on couple of sucks and latch off again. Could be he's needing less milk or your boobs are matching his demand exactly.

gilly / jodie - cross posts - I am such a slow poster!!

hey purplejenny yes I do have fibromyalgia, sorry to hear you've relapsed, it's rotten.
Nate just won't go back to the same breast, it's as if once it's stopped flowing so fast, he can't manage to extract more without wincing and squirming. He's often still hungry, hence me changing breasts, something I've previously never done.
jodie I suppose there may be an element of distraction involved but he seems more in pain than anything else and often takes a long time to get the wind up, which bothers him. He takes his EBM no problem but I guess he doesn't have to work so hard for it but now, I can't keep up with demand. If I breast feed at 11pm, he'll get less than usual and wake more, which in turn, will make me more tired and produce even less, what a vicious circle, I'm so confused and don't know what to do.

Also I have found with F that I can sometimes 'make her wait' a bit in the day - ie when she wakes from a sleep and I know she would normally feed then and she's showing some feeding cues, I actually hang on a bit until she really really is hungry which invariably is noisy as she'll suddenly go ballistic for food BUT then she does feed better cos she's really hungry.

Don't do it all the time and certainly not standard advice, just something we try sometimes.

oh gilly I feel for you.

being tired shouldn't in itself make your supply low but can obv make feeding a lot more difficult - can you get help in the day so you can just rest / get bits of sleep / sit on sofa with Nate??

If you are really worried about supply you could try just switching him back and forth from one side to the other - ie when he comes off first boob offer second, then when he comes off second boob, back to first, then when he next comes off offer second again.. and so on until he does seem satisfied. It's a recommended technique for upping supply though I've not tried it as such.

Just remember supply and demand - the more he feeds the more you'll make - don't worry too much about foremilk / hindmilk. Total nightmare when you're so tired though I know.

Sorry about long post - HTH - can you tell I've been doing my bf supporter training!!

Thought it was you with fibro - how is it for you at the mo?? What do you find helps you to manage it (apart from sleep!)

I've unfortunately got used to the pain over the years but I find gentle exercise helps, I can really tell if I don't get a good brisk walk at least once a day!
Just managed to express only 80ml when I'd usually have double that. I'm willing to try anything! Don't have anyone around to let me get any respite which doesn't help.

poledra-
I agree with SK about a book helping. When I was working at Nursery we had a book called Heavens having you.
We used to read it when one of the children had had a recent family death. Think its best suited to a grandparents death but im sure theres other more suitable books out there.

gilly - eating oats is reputed to boost supply. Also try expressing more often, especially in the morning. It could be that Nate has decided he prefers the bottle - little or no effort required on his part. You can overcome that, but it is hard work and the best way is to keep offering the boob. SK is right about the feel of boobs after4 mths or so - they do feel softer, but still have milk. Also foremilk / hindmilk - don't get too hung up on that.

gilly - also the squirming could be frustration, not pain. Sometimes if my let down is not fast enough Poppy will wriggle and latch on and off. This is a babies way of stimulating the let down. Perhaps you could stimulate your let down with a bit of nipple tweaking / hand expressing before trying to latch him, so that Nate gets milk more instantly - like he does with the bottle.

poledra - my ds1 age 5 recently had a panic about death / dying - my fault because we went to the museum and looked at mummies. I explained that people usually die when thet get very old and he needn't worry because he is only 5. Also said people die in accidents so he must be careful when crossing the road etc so he stays safe. He has forgotten all about it now.

morning all
thanks for all the supportive comments over my witch mother and yes jodie ive got used to it but as i have nothing to do with her anymore its real nice.its quite strange in one sense in one way its a relief and another way to know i will never actually speak to her again and she will die and il never know buy hey thats a small price to pay to keep my dc safe and thats the truth

ahhh poledra the old question of dying thats been a recent topic in my house lately
the children and I have discussed dying as it was brought up by my very tearfull 4 yr old who was scared to die or terrified that mummy might die and lets face it we are there whole world,they have realised the world is bigger than just this house and how on earth would they manage as the love there mummies and daddies so much
i told them yes you do die if get real old or real sick and the doctor cant make you better( we had a baby girl that was sick and died) but then quickly switched to BUT its much better to think of all the fun you can have as sad things make you sad and its much better to be happy and they agreed
so if we talk about grace they tell me all things that made them laugh what made her so beautifull and it makes them smile
i think diversion of the topic is best kept simple like this at that tender age
be truthfull and keep it small and then make the huge conversation of happy things it does the trick for me
when we go home we were on the plane and aj said mummy if we stop now grace can come in as we are in heaven and come home with us
it brought a huge lump to my throat and i said oh alan i wish you could but we cant but wave outta the windows as she can see us and is happy we are going home,they all waved
i was in the seat behind crying
trouble with being an adult gotta keep composure
poledra i know ive rambled here hon but this is how i explain things like death to a 4 yr old
morning elodie hugs to you baby

Thanks for your help everyone - hopefully DD1 won't have too many of these episodes but it's good to know that my way of dealing with it agrees with most other people. I started another thread on it, and someone else said she makes a little joke of it, saying that she's going to be a mad old lady and embarrass her DCs when they're older. Every time they see an old person behaving badly, she whispers to her DCs 'That'll be me you know - he he he!'

Jodie I love dogs too, and would love the children to have one, it's just the having one now that's the problem. And once we get into the summer, I'll be going back to work FT and we feel that it's not fair to have a puppy when there is no-one in the house all day. The thing is, DH didn't have a pet when he was young and I did have a dog- maybe that's why I have a mor realistic idea of how much work it will be.

DD2 at home today with horrible cold - it's run-for-the-tissue time whenever you hear her sneeze! Oh, Orlaith is vrying best go.

Tjuice - my thoughts are with you and Elodie today.

Poledra - we got a puppy when DD was new born and I had a toddler. I love dogs, and have another one now, but it was really bad timing and I found it very stressful. To be honest even having to walk our current 6 year old dog is pretty difficult at times now, what with school runs, bad weather and baby routines. I love our dog to pieces but I do end up doing all the dog stuff and when you have a baby it is hard. I agree with Jodie - It is so much easier in the summer!

re the death obsession - we went through this with both mine and it is hard. It sort of depends on what your religeous beliefs are (won't get into that here!) but mine were both comforted by the thought of heaven and all being together in the end - also that heaven is a happy place.

Gilly - R is bottle fed and is still eating less in the day now and waking up more in the night. I think it is a phase and am not thinking of weaning for a good while yet. (4 months today) - it is tiring though.

Have just been told that the female doctor who was supposed to be fitting my coil is on sabatical and the only other doctor who does this is male. Am I being silly to be bothered by this? Would any one else feel awkward? Have had no relations so far (terrible wife!) and feel I need to do something pretty soon about contraception or DH might explode!

sorry bn away i dunno my mumsnet would not work for me!!!

i missed u guys, had a trouble time, leah is cryin all the time.. so wingy..i feel liek im gonan snap! i dunno wat to do!!!!!!! i feel liek im gonan lose it...

we went hosp today, she only has one kidney... may need operation after a yr...!

how u all?

GILLY I have been doing much the same as you but ( whispers) N has slept through from dream feed till 8 for quite a while now. His dream feed was expressed but i too have found suppply dwindling at night so less to pump. We are on the last of the frozen stuff so are moving him over to Nanny ( a goat milk) for the dream feed. I always feel when i start introducing anything then it is the beginning of the end for me as my supply suffers and i get stressed about how much he is getting - HOWEVER he is 19 weeks and I am quite pleased with exclusive b/f till now so dont want to beat myself up. Are you going to introduce a formula?

Looked at the link someone posted earlier and it is VERY good. n looks about and flys on and off during feed ( plus scratches me to bits !) so he is bound to get less

instinct is telling me it is time to wean and i think instinct should play a larger part in parenting than it does so may go with the flow and chuck a bit of fruit at him soon

TJUICE hope all went well - big kisses for Elodie

Thanks for all your input. Had a better night, been pumping at every feed so supply is coming back up.
Hope you're all ok, will check in if Nate sleeps during the day tomorrow.

Hi everyo

oh it's soooo cold here today

TJuice - been thinking of you and Elodie today hope it all went well x

M2L - Sorry to hear about Leah needing an op . It sounds like she might just be a whingy baby, I have a theory some babies are laid back and would like there all day, some are fiesty and want to be held and are a lot more shall we say spirited, I have 3 of the latter. I would say do whatever it takes to keep you sane, don't worry about bad habits etc do whatever it takes whether thats cosleeping/rocking her to sleep/taking her for a walk/drive when she's really whingy just do it. You will probably find as she gets a wee bit older begins to sit and crawl that she gets a lot easier.

Otter - can I be nosy and ask why you have an expressed dreamfeed? Does DH do that one to give you a rest? Just asking as you seem resigned to give him formula and have your supply go and end up on formula? Have heard of Nanny as well why goats milk do you have allergies? Sorry for the questions just interesting as to what others do.

Gilly - glad your supply is coming back up too you seem a bit more positive today

hello to everyone else, off to take B to bed in a minute DP watching football so I might just stay in bed with her.

Just a quicky while DH in shower, before we watch last nights Spooks...

Tjuice thinking of you and Elodie today. Hope all is well...

Hello everyone

Good luck Elodie (and you TJ of course)

Not read all posts since I was last on line, not even had time for lurking this week. Hope everyone is well, babies are thriving and sleep is a bigger part of your lives than it is of mine!

It's 7 days since my last post (where does the time go???) and bloody hell do I feel stupid- said last Tues that L might be getting a bit less tricky. Ha! Today he is behaving like a newborn again, feeding every hour or so, won't settle to sleep without a boob in his face, sleeping for just 20 mins at a stretch, being completely unpredictable and so on- just hope it doesn't last as I am slowly going a little bit doolally. Or not that slowly actually!

Does anyone else feel that they don't really know their baby yet? With ds1 I was so in tune with him from the start, he was quite readable and so I picked up on his cues fairly easy and could have a good guess at what he was trying to tell me. With LOuis I HAVE NO BLOODY IDEA. It feels like he is still a very teeny baby to me becaue I just don't know him properly, almost as if he's only been here a few weeks not nearly 5 months. Not sure if I'm explaining this very well but he still doesn't have any particular routine, I can't tell whether he's hungry tired overstimulated upset bored whatever and this makes me feel blimmin useless.

Sorry for self indulgent rant, will try and collect my thoughts into a more coherent order before next post!

minkus!!! yes yes yes you are so right i just said to dp tonight 'his time is yet to come' we dont really know him yet
it does feel like weeks not 4 months- barely stopped to look at him

M2L sounds like your having a rough time hun
be kind to yourself at the moment and L is probably going through a bit of a phase hope it sorts itself out soon for you all

minkus sorry im the opposite i feel im very very intune with samuel and so totally bonded this is going to sound odd but its like we are one .....i always know what he wants

hes also trying to roll on one side and exploring his bits trying to grab it when hes got no nappy on its quite funny

hes snoring away so im of to my bed now dh still awake i can feel a headache coming on

Thinking of Elodie and you TJ x

Disney - where's my promised snaps? Glad you are both doing well.

It's not as flipping cold today.

Gilly/Minkus/NotanOtter- I feel your pain. Right A is up all hours usually down for 8/9, up at 12/1 and then 4/5/6 and where I used to be able to nurse him a little and he'd go back to bed..nothing seems to work and he's all over the place. We had a little success with giving him boob and bottle as last feed, but that has so far just made him tubby He just seems to be frustrated with everything just now. What happened to my sweet baby?!

My nephew and his girlfriend are visiting and it's a little chaotic and am starting to miss it just being me and A...but hey ho that's just until Friday.

TJuice - hope eveything went well for Elodie. x

Gilly - sorry to hear about the wakings, Alex wakes 2 times a night as well at the moment (but then he has never gone the whole night!) I think it's just a phase. I know you say you are tired and breast overnight doesn't satisfy him but is there anyway you could get help during the day for a couple of days and then just breastfeed him all night if necessary to get your supply back up? If you do decide to go to formula don't forget you can give both, Alexs 6:30pm feed is 3-4oz formula followed by 40 minutes at the breast (and formula makes no difference to the amount he sleeps!)
One of my NCT friends manages to give a full bottle at both the 6:30 and 10pm feed without affecting her supply during the day (however I have to warn you there is a risk it will affect your supply.)

I'm so glad it's not just me that feeds in the night when I come on here IYSWIM. In RL you feel like everyones babies sleep through from 2 days and also that BFing, FFing and solids make no difference, although I know that from DD2 who at 11-12 months had 3 good meals a day, snacks, water from a cup, and countless BF and was still up 5 times in the night it's a lot easier at that age to break the habit as you know it's habit and not hunger at 4-5 months I think they do still wake with hunger.

Typical night for us is down at 8pm, up at 12ish, 4ish and 6-7ish. I don't know how long she's up for as she falls asleep feeding as do I so not too bad.

Oh these unpredictable babies we seem to have

Right best be off and get the other two the house is far too quiet and tidy, they are back 10 minutes and every toy is pulled out.