APRIL 2008 - The One Where We Step Away From The Psycho Pill and Try Not To Need Pregnancy Tests!!!

[VictorianSqualor]

Our Babies

07 March: Ashton, a fourth child for gemprincess, 5lb 13oz @ 34+6
09 March: Ted, a second DS for Daftmoo, 7lb 14oz @ 36+0
21 March: George William, a first baby for KnitterintheNW, 7lb 2.5oz @ 37+3
25 March: Olivia, a second baby for TheMaskedPoster, 7lb 2oz @ 38+4
28 March: Pablo, a third baby and first DS for vacaloca, 7lb 14oz @ 39+4
28 March: Matteo Alexander, a first baby for Gangle @ 38+0 (?)
30 March: A baby girl, a second child for PortAndLemon, 8lb 15oz @ 39+5
02 April: Jak, a baby boy for rainbowdays, 9lb @ 39+1
02 April: A baby boy, a second child for bunyanvillas, 6lb 14oz @ 37+5
02April: Struan, a baby boy for Donnabels, 6lbs 15oz
02 April: A baby boy for mummyofaprincess @39 weeks
03 April: A baby girl for PippiCalzelunghe @38+2weeks
03 April: Aeryn Daisy, a baby girl for Denny185, 9lb 8oz @ 39+3
03 April: Benjamin, a baby boy for Micegg, 8lb 3oz @ 39+4
03 April: Roelof Grové, a first DS for SalLikesCoffee, 7lb 5oz @ 38+5
03 April: A baby boy for siikibam, 6lb 8.5oz @39+1wks
04 April: Matilda, a baby girl for AprilsFoolsBaby 7lb @
05 April: Ellis, a baby girl for MadameOvary
06 April: Henry Peter, a baby boy for Sheds, 7lb 130z @ 40+4
07 April: Sebastian George, a fourth DS for Peachy, 8lb 4oz @ 41+1
07 April: Jack, a first baby for ThePFJ, 7lb 5.5oz @ 41+1
07 April: Lexie Bea, a fourth baby for babywhiting, 8lb 1oz @ 39+4
08 April: Alasdair, a second DS for bunnyrabbit, 8lb 5.5oz @ 40+3
08 April: James Samuel, a third baby for honeybee10, 6lb 7oz @ 37+2
09 April: Zara Mia Martin, a first baby for V1KK1M, 7lb 10oz @ 41+0
09 April: Jasmine, a baby gilr for Niceychops
11 April: Kyran for rdk, 7lb 13oz @ 38+3weeks
11 April: Sebastian James, a second baby for Fleecy, 10lb 2oz @ 40+4
11 April: A baby girl, a first baby for CeylonSapphire, 7lb 12oz @ 41+1
11th April: Florence, a baby girl for LouMoose
12 April: Maya Alice, a first baby for egyptianprincess, 8lb 15.5oz @ 40+3
12 April: Sophia Viviana, a second DD for AussieDivaonaBreak, 6lb 12oz @ 39+3
15 April: Alexander Oliver, a third baby for VictorianSqualor, 10lb 3oz @ 41+0
16 April: Ailish, a first baby for Mollyfloss, 6lb 11oz @ 40+3
16 April: A baby girl, a second baby for elfsmummy, 7lb 13oz @ 41+1
16 April: Zoe, a baby girl, a first baby for ToastAddict, 6lb 10oz @ 39+3
16 April: Jasmin, a baby girl, a first baby for Eggandketchup, 9lb 3oz @ 41+4
17 April: A baby boy for paranoidmumy, 8lb 9oz @ 41+4
17 April: A baby boy, a second son for lorisparkle, 7lb 12.5oz @ 41+6
17 April: Benedict, first baby for LadyBee 9 lb 3oz @ 41 +2
18 April: Millie, a baby girl for scorpio1 8lb 9oz @ 41+?
18 April: Cameron, a second baby for munchkinmum @ 39+5
19 April: Oliver Michael, first baby for bashboid, 7 lb 4 oz at 41 +3
20 April: Samuel, a first baby for Velbels. 8lb15oz at 41+1weeks.
20 April: Angharad Mai, 8lb 4oz, 40+6, first for 7monthsplus
20 April: Emilia, 7lb15oz, a first baby for SuzeM, 40+6
20 April: A baby girl for SushiMama
21 April: Eve, a second baby for OMaLittle, 8lb 4oz @ 39+3
21 April: A second DD for Monmoo
22 April: Sam, a second son for Soph73 @ 40+0
22 April: Molly, a first baby for EllieG, 8lb 8oz? @ 40+5
22 April: Daisy, second baby for AttilaTheHan @ 40 +3
22 April: Zoe Olivia, second daughter for Piccallilli2 7lb 1oz @42+1
22 April: A second DD for blinks.
23 April: Jessica Elizabeth, first baby for BabyBratt @ 40+1 7lb 12oz.
24 April: A baby girl, a second daughter for christmaspixie, 9lb 2oz @ 40+6/41+5
24 April: Miya Jade, baby girl for ShelleySare at 39+4
25 April: Amelie, a first baby for Dondons, 9lb, 41+3 (i think!)
25 April: Aisha, a second baby for Jaq39 7lb 14oz @ 41+4
26 April: Hope Olivia, a second dd for northeastmummy, 7lb 11oz at 41 .
26 April: Gabriel, a third child for Bainmarie @ 41+5
26 April: Eli Michael, a baby boy for LittleMissTurquoise, 7lb 15.5oz @ 40+5
27 April: a baby girl for Ayomi, 6lb 1oz @ 41+0
28 April: Jacob Andrew, a 2nd DS for Kaybeeand2boys, 8lb 4oz @ 41+5
29 April: Thomas Henry, a 2nd DS for TLSM, 7lb 8oz 40+3
30 April: Harry Samuel, a fourth ds for Chipmonkey, 9lb 5oz @ 39+2
30 April: Ellie, a baby girl for Annamama
30 April: A second DD for luckymummy74
01 May: Sophie May, a baby grl for Annieroo, 6lb 5oz @ 41+4
01 May: Euan George, a baby boy for Jenniejennie, 8lb @ 40+4
02 May: Robyn Olivia, a baby girl for soph28, 8lb 1oz @ 42+1
05 May: Nora Martina, a first baby for Eva07, 7lb 8oz @ 41+2
05 May: A baby boy for Beeper, 8lb 10oz @ 41+0
05 May: Gabriella Summer, a first baby for MommyHasAHeadache, 8lb 4oz @ 40+6
06 May: Wilf, 8lb 60z for bigbadmom @ 41+6
07 May: James Andrew, a second ds for Moominsmummy, 8lb 13oz @ 41+5
08 May: Ellie Isabella, a first baby for Carey87, 7 lb 8oz @ 42+1
08 May: Robin David, a 2nd baby for Woollymummy, 8lb 11 oz @ 41+3
09 May: 4 kittens for scorpio's cat!
10 May: Astrid Mary, a second dd for sagitta, 8lb 8oz @ 42+0

Yes, but where do you get that? It's not in the guidelines for BLW, for example; they expect that a baby starting weaning will be sitting assisted and using a fist grip. I'm with you on the general waiting until 26 weeks, with Gill Rapley on the letting them play with food before that if they seem interested stuff and with the general physical reality that they are unlikely to actually manage to consume anything unaided until 26 weeks, but don't get where the "sit unaided" and "pincer grip" come in.

General guidelines suggest being able to sit upright (so that food falls out of mouth), i.e. not reclined in a bouncy chair or similar, but not necessarily unaided (babies can typically sit upright on laps or in highchairs before they can sit unaided on the floor), and being able to reach and grasp, but not necessarily grasp with a pincer grip.

In any event, I'm not going to feel stressed about doing exactly what Gill Rapley suggests and letting DD (sitting upright on my lap) hold (in a fist grip) and mouth suitable bits of food when she's interested. It's very unlikely to result in actual weaning before 26 weeks.

I apologise, I got the pincer grip wrong, it was something I read on one of the weaning threads here, as for unaided Gill Rapley said they are sat upright in a high chair rather than leaning back in it, in comparison to aided upright like in a bumbo for example, so what you may mean by assisted, I meant by unaided.

But whether it be by pincer grip or fist grip (which I agree makes much more sense!)a baby under 26 weeks that is ready for weaning is thought to be able to sit upright in a high chair and pick up their food, put it in their mouth, chew it and swallow it. Rather than be able to take a form of 'babyfood' or purees spooned into their mouth.

Well, I think we need to remember they are guidelnes. For a start, an average baby aged26 weeks can be cnceived the same day as one 24 or 28 weeks (birth at 2 weeks pre or post term). Also, d3 nly got a pincer grip after a year; no sn known then. I'm also a bit sus about the allergies: not you vs, your guidance is correct, but the aetiology f allergies is still largely a mystery. Current research seems to suggest that non-exposre (eg peanuts, dust) is a factor in acquiring allergies: how then does this translate to foodstuff avoidance? loads more research needed.

My biggest concern is that this guidance is causing a risk to the parent- health professonal link. I know several people who just weaned their second baby the same age (4 months) as te first but explicitly decided not to tell teir HV.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out; there used to be developmental concerns (jaw) in babies who weaned post-26 weeks, only time wll tell.

In the meantime think people need to be advised by the guidelines but also by their baby. Parental instnct is hugely important in that, and it must remembered that as the readiness stage is 17-26 weeks, the assumpton that a baby is definitely ready at 26 weeks does nto change the readiness of some at 17.

In other words- we need to trust the guidelines, nbut also realise that mums do know their babies best, that some are ready early and post-advice, need to accpet and respect the mum's decision, agree with it or no.

Anyhoo

Got Bas a highchair in Ikea, incluidng insert and tray under £20. Bargan. It can be shoved in the bath and showered too- excellent

I don't agree with parental instinct.
I have seen people time and again on this board claim that instinct told them their baby needed weaning at 12 weeks or w/e.

All instinct tells you is that your baby is hungry, whereas the baby's instinct tells them they are ready for food.

Surely not being able to tell either way is enough to hold off until 26 weeks if there are no other health problems?

It's a risk assessment, I don't understand why anyone would knowingly take the risk.

WRT allergies, well, it's a nightmare! But it suggested that as the stomach is permeable to allow antibodies through from the breastmilk, it also allows certain allergens through but once that period has finished that it may be best to introduce foods at an early age, gradually i.e don't keep your children away from peanuts then suddenly give them a jar of nutty butter at 7!

See, beleive in instinct: parental instinct is a theme that comes through very strngly on the SN board. There is a difference between instinct (seeing genunely recognised signs and attributing them corectly) and pure guesswork / excuses / misinfo, which is what 12 weeks would be. I personally think giving aprents proper education regarding signs that don't mean weaning should start (not having slept through, growth spurts etc) would probably be more productive than giving guidelines that seem to create (whatever the guideline is, whether its dont feed your baby or dont walk n the grass) a sense of @I know better' or definace.

however I want to reiterate that I would not advise anyone to wean before the guideline age without proper advice from a PAed (GP / HV dont count) or registered dietician. There's a world of difference between me wonderinga nd doubting elements as a know-a-bit person and proper, qualified, research based advice. It is the latter that should always be followed.

peachy - highchair sounds fab! link?

Anyway - ihave hot water & a washing machine that works!!

OMa - are the chocs nice? fancy odering myself some telling dh about them!

and i suitably embarassed the repair people whilst bfing! hope they are open to it in France...always ff before so don't know

Its like this Scorpio

Now that sort of instinct I totally agree with, I think people can mistake their own 'wants' for instinct, or even confuse a baby being boring with something new needing to happen, i.e. weaning.

Also agree that we should be taught more about the signs, if you google weaning I can almost guarantee (haven't checked so only almost)that most of then say 'waking more, looking at food, eating more' etc. Exactly the same signs as a growth spurt, being more active and even teething!

Blimey v heated on here this am then, v diplomatic Peachy, those high chairs r fab, sit right up to the table.

Question re BF, friend of mine has stopped in the last week, gradually weaned down but is still producing some milk. She's worried re mastitis/blocked ducts is there anything she can take/do to help dry milk up any quicker or does she just ride it out?

Absolutely delicious, in fact far too nice - guess what I had for lunch - still plenty left for dinner, though. I think I might need the details of your WW diet soon! Did it affect your milk supply at all? I want to be under 10 stone! Haven't lost anything for about 6 weeks now, but then I have been eating loads and doing no exercise, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

Just got DD1 to sleep. I would keep her up (though naturally I like the break) but she needs loads of sleep and will be a total shitebag if she doesn't get it. Been up there for an hour, though!

Question - anyone whose DH is doing a dream feed, when do you express? I had 2-3 as my window today (DD2 fed 11.30ish, down at 1.45 for nap, usually 2ish hours) but spent it in DD1's room trying to get her to go to sleep. It's becoming a massive chore. The other night I hadn't expressed (god, I haven't posted this yet) and SHE ONLY WOKE UP AT 1.20!!! and 6, then went back to sleep until 8ish. So am thinking of phasing out the dream feed, though DH loves doing it. Yesterday it took me probably a total of 2 hours expressing (no joke) to get 5 measly oz. Thing is, I really don't want to do any formula before weaning (when I guess the virgin gut thing becomes moot, right, VS?), and I do feel tied when I don't have any expressed milk [bad mum emoticon]. I think my pump (medela mini electric) being quite knackered isn't really helping.

I know you (VS, sorry again!) said if I expressed before feeding it would be OK, but she does then get very frustrated and feed/cry the whole period between waking and going to bed. Having said that, she quite often does that anyway! Between nap and bed is definitely the witching hour here - DD1 bored and clingy, DD2 feeding/crying/tired. Think we'll go out today!

ps forgot to say to you all, lots and lots of acquaintances friends from uni at the festival/party at the weekend, my favourite quote from a girl never renowned for her tact...

"So, how's having two kids? Is it hard or do you really love them?"

Er... both?

Could u express at the time DH does dream feed so ready 4 the next day IYSWIM?

Yeah the virgin gut doesn't count once they are being weaned.

Thanks! Still better to BF, but the occasional bottle of formula less critical?

(ps VS, Scorpio has my address for the invoice )

i express when i get up

diet - just watch calories really, and do 40 mins exercise a day.

doesnt appeared to have affected milk supply at all.

Yes OMa, breastmilk will always be the best option, but from weaning the virgin gut is lost so doesn't count therefore formula is a lot less of a worry wrt immunity etc.
You can also use cows milk fom 6 months.

does the odd bottle of formula cause any issues? say once a week?

PMSL at "Is it hard or do you really love them?"

We still don't have a working washing machine and haven't since mid-June (back and forward to laundrette today; fortunately it's more-or-less opposite us). Fortunately new one should be ready while we're on holiday, so this may be my last laundrette day...

I had huge plans to express loads this time round but haven't expressed at all . Managed to negotiate night out last Saturday with MIL sitting with no problems (evening feed then dash out) and by the time we get back from holiday she'll only be ten days off six months so I think after six months will be able to try formula for nights out (not that am likely to have many of those for a while anyway).

mimi has had formula before - about 10 oz total (when she was 2 days and 2oz at 3 weeks - thrush)

No, not really Scorpio, the main issue with being exclusive until 6 months is the virgin gut thing plus your supply being affected if you do it often.

if i did would be once a week, max, then only if no ebm and a suprise outing iyswim

was thinking on holiday cos i cant take a stash with me (no fridge, whole day journey) we will be going out alone for 1 night and if i cant get enough ebm whilst there, i could take over a carton of sma gold

oof, I have just had one of those days where I feel like I'm as incompetent as I was on day 2. Went out to lunch with two girlfriends, and knew DS needed changing as soon as I arrived, so took him off with my changing kit but not my whole bag, got to the baby changing facilities and realised that he'd had a bad leak and his entire outfit needed changing, and I'd left his spare clothes in my bag back in the cafe.
Then opened kit and found I had only 2 wipes and the facilities didn't have 1) a toilet with loo roll or 2) paper towels, just a sink and one of those fabric rolls. Decided I would just have to rinse the wipes or use his vest, managed to clothes off him without getting him more dirty, started the clean up operation shuttling back and forth to the sink and just had him clean and had tossed the wipes, but not put the new nappy on him, when he peed all over the change table.
finally managed to get him dry and nappy on, carried him back into the cafe and we managed to get him into a spare babygro dressing him on the table.
Then tried feeding him, but we had a sort of booth and I couldn't get him positioned without squashing him too tightly against the table, plus he wouldn't stop squirming and trying to look about.
Sat him up and tried eating my lunch when he grabbed at my glass of water and poured it all over his clean suit. I hadn't realised how loud he can be but he then started getting frantic and squealing at top volume over my shoulder directly into the hearing aid of some very distinguished gentlemen sitting behind me.
In the end I had to go and sit in the baby changing room, which did at least have a chair, to get him to feed enough to calm down and sleep long enough for me to have a glass of wine and piece of cake.

For the first time I wished I had a bottle and some formula with me, so that I could have sat him in his buggy to feedhim. But now I think about it, I just need to work out how to take EBM out with me.
I only ever use it at home, but with him getting impossible to feed in public, I think I need to find a way. I wonder if I just grabbed a couple of bags of frozen milk when I went they should thaw slowly and stay cool - could always ask for hot water to thaw completely and warm up.

hmmm...