May 2008 - gurgling, laughing and maybe even rolling!

[thefortbuilder]

new thread everyone!

HiYCNBS. Please try and persevere with leaving your lo to slef settle...I really think it will be worht it in the end.

Macococ the book sounds really good, thanks for the recommensdation,.I might get it,. I agree so much about sleep.

Going to see my mum for the weekdnd. bit of time out for me!

hi macaco - interestingly enough that attitude to naps / how much sleep and when and why is akin to the reasoning behind GF although she of course can be seen by some as really rather too prescriptive (choosing my words carefully here!)

ds2 has a similar napping routine although our routine is like this now

7.00 awake till 830 - feed in this time

830 till 9.30 sleep

9.30 till 1200 awake - feed at just before 12

12.00 till 2 sleep

2 till 430 awake - feed at around 330

430 till 530 sleep

normally big feed at around 630pm, then bath at 7, then rest of feed and sleep at 730

130 wake for feed and straight back to sleep till 700ish

although of course at the moment he has the pox and a bit of a cold so he's sleeping a lot more.

and also we should remember that when thy are having growth spurts they sleep a bit more as they grow when they're sleeping!

anyone else want a london meetup a week on wednesday? email me at lysetteparbhu at yahoo dot co dot uk

I've not read any GF so I can't comment on her. The healthy sleep ahbits book is excellent because he's actually studied sleep and the brain in adults AND BABIES and so he bases it on brain chemistry. It's not too prescriptive, it's all about FACILITAING sleep. So that's why the morning nap tends to come first as it naturally develops (if you let it) as their brain matures. He actually says a certain amount of night wakings are normal but not to do with hunger...it's to do with rhythms of sleep.
But he doesn't say either you shouldn't feed them if they wake...basically whatever helps them to sleep but to maintian a rough timetable so they sleep when they should be more or less.
I found the science behind it fascinating and also pretty much all of his suggestions/explanations obvious. Like I say, Nico was already beginning to do it himself. The key is to help them to sleep and by timing it right you help them to self settle which in turn helps stop night wakings eventually.
If I have another baby I'll be using his suggestions from day one.
He's also very good about distinguishing between colicky babies and different ages. He says it's about brain development so before 6 weeks is different to 6weeks plus and different to 4 months plus.
Like I say....best book on children/babies I've ever read.

also fits in with the other excellent book I read called how to enjoy year one, rachel waddilove. All about flexible routines. I'd recommend marc weissbluth first and then rachel waddilove for practical timetables.
But anyone having trouble with "clingy" babies, please please please read Marc Weissbluth. You're not abandoning them by leaving them to cry but if you know when to start winding down/soothing and when to put them down to sleep they'll hardly cry at all, if at all. And the earlier you start the easier it is.

Evening all,

macoco that book sounds fab, think I'm gonna order it now! Although DD2 is a good sleeper, she's not as good as her older sis (who pretty much did nothing but sleep...LOL!). Interestingly, I have been driving myself a bit crazy this week trying to decide what the best (flexible) routine is for DD2. I have been doing feeds at roughly.....6-7am, 11am, 3pm, 6-7pm. Thre last few nights I have then fed her again at 10pm (more about that later) and she has gone thru til 7am. She doesn't seem to be in any sort of pattern for sleeps/naps. I'd like her to be, as I agree with what you say the book says about how if they nap well in the day they sleep better at night.

The problem is, no two days are ever the same for me, so it's hard to get a nap routine going. It totally depends whether DH is off or not, whether I am meeting up with friends etc etc.

I think I will put DD2 in DD1's room for naps when I get home (from superbro's) as she has a pitch black room with the blackout blind. I think that might help...what do you think?

Anyway, still having a lovely time at Superbro's....he babysat last night and DH and I went out for dinner and to see 'The Dark Knight'. The meal was yumbolicious (prezzo!) but I didn't really enjoy the film. It was very good, and Heath Ledger was brilliant in it (), but just not my kind of thing, although I usually like Batman films ???.
Poor superbro had DD2 projectile vomit on him. He's lovely my bro, but not very good at listening to instrusctions, IYKWIM. I said to give her the bottle at 10:30pm, and he gave it to her at 9pm, I only fed her at 6:30pm, so I think it was simply too much milk for her. Poor superbro though, having to clean all that up!!

We went to the beach today, DD1 loved it, which was very reassuring as she hated the beach on hols last year (15 mths old then). She was right in the sea with DH, I couldn't believe how brave she was!

DD2 screamed the entire time we were there (a whole hour! ). I ended up bringing her back on my own.

Must go..din dins is ready!

LM xxx

I have just ordered the book macoco

recommended, it's only £7.94 on play.com with free delivery!

the sleep book

Forgot to say, YCBS, Thanks v much for the offer but my friend has said no thanks to the moses basket as they still haven't decided what they are going to use, IYSWIM. They might just buy a crib. She said thank-you very much for offering it though.

Hope yo uare having a lovely weekend- enjoy your pamper day.

£7.49...even better!

Pina - I'd love to get into doing childrens portrait photography but bit of a pipe dream at the moment.

Also yes I definitely feel broody already, look at pregnant people and feel jealous which i know is ridiculous but can't help it! If we have another it will be at least 3 year gap which i think i'm ok with, as long as I can have another at some point i'll be happy. Only thing is if it's in 3 years i'll be 30 so I can see myself thinking that i've still got time to have number 4 but don't think dh will agree!!

Macaco: Thanks for the tip on the book, I have also ordered one- hoping it will help

LM74: Glad that you are enjoying your holiday and getting a night out. Thanks for finding the book- saved me searching.

YCBS: hope you enjoy your pampering day and busy weekend

Asicsgirl: Glad that you had a nice holiday

Monkeysmama: Enjoy your holiday if you read this and enjoy seeing your BF.

Hello Indigoblue and Duchessofnorksbride (how you finding having 4 kids- feeling jealous that I might never have 4)

Welcome Gruffalo Pina: I would never say never to having more children, but DH wouldn't want to wait 5 years(He is 12 years older than me) and I couldn't manage with 4 children unless the boys where completely independent, as much as they can be at 5 and 7. So at the moment we won't be having anymore children, but wouldn't be doing anything drastic like sterlisation as you never know. But I am already giving away every baby item which DS2 has outgrown. Even all of DD clothes from the last 7 years, which I had kept encase we had another DD.
Oh and your ebay site looks great and your cards are lovely

What a lot to catch up on!

LM I'm sorry about your Mass-hysteria . It did make me smile though as I did almost the exact same thing a few years ago - but there were no lovely nuns to bail me out. (I left mid-service dragging my children with me ).

ycbs DS2 is sleeping 10-11 hours a night and I don't change him during that time. He's not a great poo-er though, he only goes once a day at most. If he did have a poo in the night then I would change him. He usually stirs when I go up to bed but he goes straight back to sleep again without any interference from me and I think he'd do the same if I changed him. The morning nappy is very wet & heavy but no leaks so far.

Which links nicely in to the sleep debate. All 4 of mine have self-settled and slept 8 hours at 8 weeks increasing to 12hrs at 12 weeks, though with DS1 it went pear-shaped at around 4 months when his eczema and reflux took a turn for the worse. It took me awhile with DC1 to realise that when she was really screaming she needed me to bugger off and leave her in peace. They're all happy, confident children that sleep well even now. I think it's mostly luck though, so apologies if anyone was hoping I had a foolproof method! It's brandy Babies will sleep through when they are ready to do so, not when the HV dictates it. Ditto rolling, crawling, walking, talking and potty training.

Lovely that all our babies are giggling and laughing now. DS2 is so in love with his hands at the moment that I'm not getting much of a look-in! He's another one that hates being on his tummy, I'm not forcing it, he'll get there eventually. He does like going out in the garden in his pushchair for his afternoon nap and watching the trees. [Edwardian Governess Emoticon]

All in all, we're having a great time with him. I adore having a babies scrunched-up body snuggled on my shoulder. So glad I had another!

mitchell - having the 4 is brilliant! His big brother & sisters adore him, they entertain him while I cook dinner, they don't complain if he throws a big screamer and he's been a very amenable baby through the summer holidays - enjoys the beach, picnics, etc. He has even been heavily splashed whilst sleeping at the side of the pool in his car seat - DD1 forgot he was there and dived in right next to him ! He was very cool about it!!! The other 3 are quite capable and independent kids despite being only 3, 5 & 6yo, and that helps enormously. I probably wouldn't have considered a 4th if I had a really awful toddler in the house!

Sorry if I've made you & indigo feel even more broody!

hello again duchess, nice to hear from you!

I've been playing 'roll over' with DD2; I sing 'there were ten in the bed and the little one said....roll over' and I lift her legs up and roll her onto her side. We did this yesterday and this morning she rolled onto her side on her own!!

I wonder if the people at play.com are wondering why so many orders for one book all of a sudden...I have been recommending it to my RL friends too!!!!

hiya all hope you're having good weekends

well....poor sam has the pox, it's come out pretty badly i think - on his face, head, in his hair, and all over his back and a few in his nappy area. poor wee man. but ironically he slept all the way through from 6 till 630 this morning (he was so tired and crochety i couldn't bear to make him stick to his normal bed time last night).

not much else to report - dh has jsut taken ds1 to the driving range so i'm off back to bed for a nap i think! then our usual sunday routine once they're back

A very quiet weekend on the May thread?!

flick I hope poor Sam feels better soon.

We've had a funny day, had a late night last night as visiting family, didn't get home til 9pm, very late for my girls! They have both been all out of sorts today, DD1 really whingy and DD2 just screaming nearly all day. Very draining. It's amazing how it affetcs them?

I'm thinking of weaning off the BF. Just starting to feel now like I've had enough of it. DD2 so fidgety. I only have to feed her 4 times a day, but I just feel as if I've been getting my tits out forever now (15 weeks). Lord only knows how these women who do it til the child is 2 yrs old cope....nuff respect!
I'm planning to continue til end of the month (only 2 weeks) then drop one feed a week and replace with a bottle. That's what I did with DD1 and thankfully didn't get sore or engorged.

Still feeling exhausted despite stay at Superbro's.....I think I'm finally realising that this is just life now.....exhausting!!! . As DH keeps telling me....'well, that's what having kids is like!'. I know but it doesn't make it any easier!!

Hope you all had a nice weekend.

LM xx

Morning!!

Just catching up after our weekend away - which was lovely and Harry was on his best behaviour! (though, LM, do agree that the lack of routine makes things harder - harry was seriously cranky last night and didn't feed well in the middle of the night, meaning he was up again at 5am for another half feed... it takes it out of them!)

DH has pottered off back to work and Harry is asleep, so it's business as usual here....

Flick - Hope Sam is feeling a bit brighter. Poor little bear!

Indigo - I'm sure there is a big market for photographers.... I think there is a real gap in the market for the 'Venture' type photos, but with more flexibility on getting digital prints. I ended up doing my own pictures (which are now off being framed) because I just hate the whole 'you have to have them framed with us' etc (and the price is !!!!) that Venture (and similar photographers) make you go through. I think a lot of people would like good quality pictures just for posterity (I know I would!) rather than wanting a A0 picture costing £1000 for the wall!

LM - sorry you are still feeling tired... Have you had your iron levels checked? Maybe you are little run down?? No problems about the moses basket... I think I'll send the whole lot off to the charity shop - DH will not be best pleased if the boxes of stuff are still in the dining room when he gets home on Friday!!

Gruffalo - thanks for the advice about sleeping. I'll have a look at that book...

Hello to everyone else!!

Only downside all weekend was DH's birthday presents - He took one look at the headphones I'd bought him and told me to take them back So much for my 'he'll like these'!!! Still, the DVDs went down well and I got him a good cookbook too which he liked....

ycbs - freecycle your stuff - all my baby stuff has just gone as soon as i've put it on there, and it means you don't have the hassle of getting it to the charity shop.

sam is doing ok - he's absolutely covered in spots now though - i just hope that's all there are to come out.

ds1 has rapidly regressed on the toilet training - dh insists on putting him in pull ups when he takes him out at the weekend to the park because he has an irrational hatred of public loos - i always take proper cleaning wipes with me and wipe the toilet before ds1 sits down but dh seems incapable of getting the pants and trousers back onto him, so i ended up giving in and we have now had 2 accidents this morning whereas at the end of last week we were nearly always dry...i'm so fed up of the constant battles i'm almost thinking of giving up now on it (battles with dh i mean)

flick Oh dear on the potty training!!! It sounds as if you are bang on the right ideas and your DH is cocking things uo for you!! (sorry!). From what I read, and I'm sure you know this, you shouldn't put them in pull ups as it confuses them. What a pain, I really feel for you!! Don't give up....you were doing really well. Can you explain to DH why not to use the pull ups. It is daunting taking them out when they are training, but it's just something we have to do as parents, IYSWIM. I had to take DD1 three times during mass on Sunday, and each time she came back announcing to the congregation what she had done....even when it was a poo!! FWIW, I too hate public loos. You could buy one of these which was recommended to me and I have found it BRILLIANT. It would mean your DH could put DS1 on the travel potty instead of using public loos.

(However, we did go to a garden centre the other day and DD1 needed the loo, but the loo floor was filthy so I decided to try and hold her 'over' the big toilet but so that she wasn't touching the seat, which then resulted in her weeing all over her pants and jeans so we had to change clothes anyway!!)

YCBS I would definitely go with the freecycle idea, I got rid of stuff the same day, and as flick says, they even come and collect it!!
Oh, and at your DH for not liking his headphones, which, for the record, I thought looked amazing when you bought them.

I'm feeling a bit low today. Having had nearly a week away from home (at superbo's) I thought I'd be feeling much better, but I still feel exhausted/emotional/close to tears/achey all the time. I just don't want to get up in the morning. DH is kind of sympathetic, but I don't think men ever fully understand how hard it is for us women. I don't know how you mums with 3 or 4 kids cope, I really don't.

Did anyone watch that doc on TV last night called 'The perfect vagina'???? It was very interesting!!! .

OK, Freecycle is the way to go... I can't face having to try and get it to a charity shop (the last time I tried to take something, they told me they didn't take furniture (I took two bedside cabinets))

Flick - Having been through potty training with DSD2, I second not using pull ups... DH refused to use them, as DSD2 had a bit of a 'security' thing (meaning she knew she could wet if she didn't feel secure about her surroundings)... She went through a big phase of having to check toilets out if we went somewhere new for lunch or dinner. DSD2 wasn't the bravest of kids, so our 'compromise' was to bring a nappy so if (for some amazing reason) she could put that on to 'go' (IYSWIM)... it only happened once... we were on the Froggy bus in LOndon (now called Duck tours I think - def. recommended they are such good fun!), she was desperate and 'went' in her nappy, but (IMHO) better to make it a concious decision for the child....

LM - Feel for you... Maybe you should go to GP.... I wondered about iron because I felt like you describe just before Harry was born and I took iron tablets (prescribed by consultant) and felt a million times better. Honestly, DH said it was horrid having to watch me when I clearly didn't have the energy to hardly get out of bed.... but it might (and I know nothing about it, so please take it FWIW) be PND.... Worth checking, just in case???

Poor Old Harry Headbanger is sleeping the sleep of the Just today. after being away all weekend, he's pooped!!!

Never mind about DH's headphones - I thought they were cool too, but will give them to my BIL for his birthday.... DH is notoriously difficult to please. I asked him what he'd like and the stuff ranged from an £8K guitar to £85K car Actually, that's unfair of me... Dh was quite happy with his DVDs and cookbook... He's just not good with being bought stuff - he's very specific with what he likes and (even after 10 years) I rarely get it right!!!

I'm feeling unusually happy for a Monday.... Think it was our lovely weekend away....

YCBS thanks. I might go to GP, I just have a feeling they will laugh and say 'what do you expect? a baby and a toddler, of course you are tired!'. I have very little faith in GPs. However, I have had low iron in the past....

I am a bit scared that it could be PND. I spoke to DH about things this morning and feel a bit better for having go it off my chest. I just can't snap out of this funny mood. It's so unlike me, I'm normally so upbeat and in control, I hate feeling like this.

I can't wait for the weekend my cousin is coming to stay from London and she takes over all the care of DS2, changing, dressing feeding. So I get a break from the 24/7 care.

LM: Sorry you are feeling like this. Probably worth seeing the doc as even if it is a waste of time at least you have seen someone. IYSWIM. About that programme last night, yuk I actually had to switch it off as it was making me feel sick. Glad that you had a good holiday.

YCBS: Glad that you had a good weekend, did DH enjoy his birthday.

Flick: hope that DS1 gets back ontrack with toilet training.And hope chicken pox clears up quickly.
DD is nearly 8 and still hasn't had chicken pox, wondering when our household will get it?

Duchess: sounds like you are really enjoying having your forth baby. Will there be a fifth?

mitchel - bring your one over here and we'll have ourselves a good old fashioned chicken pox party!

lm - def go to your gp as it may be that even just talking to someone wil help you feel an awful lot better. certainly helped with me and i only ended up going for one very long (2 hours!) session... and they may well do blood tests to rule out any deficiencies etc in any case.

and yes re the potty training - i've being firm - what do you do on long car journeys though? we have a 1.5 hr journey to do to get to my parents and the same on the way back. jacob just won't use a potty - it's the toilet or nothing which is great in one way as he's not scared of it or anything like that, but rather annoying otherwise! and after the accidents this morning, nothing today!!!

hallloooo all

i'm not reading frequently enough to keep up with everyone, sorry! from what i can remember tho':

pina the cards are lovely! good luck with the ebay shop

ycbs at dh being so hard to buy for!! sounds like you did pretty well

mitchell great that your cousin is coming and you will get a bit of a break. she sounds like a star.

lm74 poor you ((hugs)) i agree with ycbs and mitchell that seeing the doc is a good idea. you could try this online version of the pnd scale - here - i know that might sound like a weird idea but i did this last time when i was having a hard time with ds1 and it actually reassured me that i wasn't depressed...iyswim. and if the result suggests that you might be, you can go to the doc forewarned and forearmed... hope you feel better soon chick.

flick sorry sam is covered in pox!! and i agree with others that consistency is the key in potty training. we have a potette too and it is great. worth a try if it will get dh on board??

i watched some of the vagina prog too - it was better than i was expecting. but that poor girl who was teased by her evil sister!! it was ironic though, for all the talk about 'oh women need to feel positive about their bits and not feel pressured to look a certain way', it just made me think 'god! has every woman apart from me got a brazilian??!'

we had a nice weekend with the grandparents. they took ds1 on lots of exciting walks, put him to bed etc and generally made a big fuss of him. it was great to have some people around who had lots of energy for playing silly games with him - i feel really guilty that i don't have this at the moment, as it is normally such a big part of our relationship. i took ds1 down to the train station to see them off yesterday, and we sat on the station for another hour (his choice! ) playing trains then got the bus home and made cakes together, all while DP looked after ds2. it was lovely, just like old times

ds2 has been a happy boy recently. lots of chuckling. new pics on my profile of both the lovely boys

ooh sorry flick x-posts re. the potty!

Goodness!! Get us, with 3MO babies!! Asics Your photos are lovely!!

I'm only on for a second... Harry Headbanger is going to wake up and scream ask politely for his breakfast!

LM - How are you feeling today?

Anyway, I have officially knackered my back... I have no clue what I've done to it, but it keeps having spasms (base of my spine) and it's seriously uncomfortable... Thank goodness the chocolate dog is with my dad as I'm not sure I'm up to walking today...

It's DH's birthday today so as a special treat, I called him this morning (I usually just text!) I think, in reality, this was a greater treat for me than DH!!! I'm going to organise a nice meal for us this weekend..........

God, my back is killing me... Must go and sort Harry's bottle out...