May 2008 - gurgling, laughing and maybe even rolling!

[thefortbuilder]

new thread everyone!

Pina: Sounds like you will have a wonderful evening and your friends are going to be spoilt, can't wait to see photos.

DS2 has a santa suit and a reindeer outfit and I am sure I will find some more cute ones.

deathbymonkey welcome back

LM I also started DS2 on babyrice on the weekend, wasn't keen so will try again this weekend. He is not yet 6 months so don't feel pressure into starting. And keep thinking to myself it is so much easier whilst still on only milk.

RE: babies that like to wake up and feed in the night. We brought DS2 cot into our room and made it up as a bedside cot because he was sleeping in our bed and feeding constantly and kept screaming every few hours for a few minutes and then back to sleep. Well since putting him into his cot he is still waking for milk but not crying at all and sleeping all night in his cot, so I am very happy . DH and I have finally got our bed back to ourselves not that it has stopped us.

The boys are going to a Halloween party at a soft play area tomorrow so look forward to seeing my little skeleton and vampire dressed up.

Pina: Hello everythings fine. DD had a nice birthday, did you see the photos? I can see you had a great holiday.We must catch up.

Hi guys,

Just a quikie from me - Had a few days away and feeling much better for doing so! DS, DDog and I took the train to my parents (which is a little bit of a feat) but we all had an adventure and DS loved the train (DDog always travels well as long as I don't take him near his nemisis - the evil esculator!! hahaha!)

Mocat - How are the Mice? Still tormenting the cat?

MumofKandJ - Can i ask what you think of sing and sign? I enrolled DS but aren't getting on at all well, but I wonder if it's the class, there is no repetition and we are covering 'signs' so quickly... I think it would be better if the class stuck to a dozen or so important signs with catchy tunes - I've pretty much given up with it, as it's not enjoyable for DS or me but wonder if I should try another class?!

LP74 - LOVE the name . I also don't understand how people can get so uptight about feeding regimes. Personally, I make up 2-3 in one go and store them around 12 hours in the fridge, but have stored them longer and DH would often make 4 bottles before he leaves on Monday morning to see me through Mondays... DS is taking to weaning slowly.. some things he likes, so he doesn't... Can I ask, though, do you feed the baby while you hold them (similar to giving a bottle) or in their high chair? I've always put DS in his chair for 'meals' but I bought the ANabel Karmel book and she said to hold them?

Pina - GOod luck with the tickets tomorrow!!! No wonder you have no energy - all that drooling over TT and Troy

Baiyu - DId you get a suit for DS?

Mitchell - thanks for your support recently. It really means a lot to me and

last but not least!!

FLICK - Have a WONDERFUL birthday tomorrow!!!

Deathbymonkey - Sorry, meant to say Hello and welcome back to you!!

Hi nssa, just a quicky- Sing and Sign- I like it, BUT we do have (completely illegal copy) of the DVD which DD1 still insists we watch regularly. She loves it. We only learn the signs by practice through the week (so some weeks we don't remember any). Most of the classes basic songs are on the DVD, but I like the classes for making me practice the songs, and the other mums are quite nice this time. If you're not 'bonding' with the other families there, not practising much, then you're probably wasting your money, sorry. I felt better about the class when I stopped thinking of it it terms of baby- its for me(she isn't going to use any signs in the class and probably ages) and its up to me to learn bit so she can, and for me its a nice place to be. If I recall correctly, even the teachers little boy, with having signs used around him all the time, didn't actually use any until about 10 months- each child is different with the control they have to actually do the signs as well.
Arrghh, been too long, must go to bed!
mumofk*

No, def. no bonding at the signing class (though we HAVE got on great at the music class and the swim class) and other than about half a dozen signs, we don't use them. I really only use the signs for nappy, milk, sleep, clean, mummy, daddy and clothes but the last class I went to, we were covering giraffes and lions and cows etc., when I'd say 95 - 100% of the class don't have the basics...

But at Monkey music (which DS LOVES), we do the same thing every week and by the end, DS knows the bubbles are coming and is positively beaming at the thought!! ANd swimming, we only need to get the (LIME GREEN ) swim nappy out for him to get all excited.

I have been totally slovenly tonight. Am relying on RFU milk, and we have watched the Peppa Pig DVD tonight and sang the songs rather than have a bath and read books. - I know it's a bit naughty but we have had a busy day and we both need to chill and, well, rules are there to be broken!!!

Ah well, it's goodnight from me and it's goodnight from him!!

NSSA xx

Thanks pina for your support on the other thread. Seriously, did you all know that you were meant to add formula to hot water to kill bacteria in formula powder? Do you all do that??

NSSA I didn't really get on with sing and sign with DD1. I didn't like the teacher which didn't help, but I didn't bother going after the initial 6 weeks.

Happy Birthday flick (tomorrow?)

Just watched SATC with little sis....I cried again .

FWIW, No, I didn't know that you were supposed to add formula to hot water. I prefer to add it to hot water because I find it dissolves easier (which makes sense).

In fact, I absolutely disagree with the fact that hot water would kill bacteria. YOu are talking lower than 100C.... Most bacteria would actually THRIVE at the higher temperature (10C increase in temp will see a doubling of bacterial activity)

It's a lot of tosh... I'm off to find your thread and wade in!!

Flick Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you tell I like the new faces???

NSSA welcome back, hope you had a nice time. Also hope you have a nice relaxing weekend you deserve it.

LM still can't believe that silly thread, did you get a lie in? Can't remember when last I had one, well this morning DS stayed sleeping till 6:30 so better than 5:30am.

Happy Halloween everyone !!!!!!!!!

Hi everyone

haven't read all the latest posts on this thread and haven't read the FF thread (but can imagine ). Will go back and read but want to write b4 DS wakes.

As I understand it the formula powder is not sterile so you need hot water to sterilise it. Then obviously the best of all possible worlds would be to use it straight away. If it is left the bacteria start to multiply. If it is cooled rapidly and kept in the fridge the rate at which the bacteria multiply would be very slow.
I make up 4 feeds with very hot water, cool them in very cold water and keep them in the fridge for 12 hours. Once out of the fridge I throw away if not used in 12 hours.
This seems sensible to me and I don't have to run the steriliser (takes about 10 min for a cycle) before I make each feed. I run the steriliser, make them all up and keep them very cold for 12 hours.
Making them with cooled water would be the same as long as you give them the feed straight away as obviously you aren't killing bacteria with the heat so you need to give the feed asap so as not to give the bacteria a chance to multiply.
The guidelines were changed because of 2 deaths due to unhygienic preparation. So if you tell people they can never leave the feeds once made you have less chance of someone stupid making it up, leaving it in the sun and feeding it 2 days later.

I might post that on the FF thread but I'm not sure i want to stick my head above the parapet to be honest. What do you think?

sorry once out of the fridge I use within 1 not 12

couldn't resist a little post about mineral water on that thread but otherwise I'm leaving well alone now I've read it...the red mist has obviously descended in front of some posters eyes. Did like the way all the May 2008 girls piled in to defend LP74! Go girls. Think I'll stick to our nice sensible thread this morning.
DS still snoozing. Going to have to go and wake him soon as we need to go out.

THANKS GIRLS for your support....it means a lot ot me, I am feeling the love !

I'm still really confused tbh. After what macoco said though, I'm thinking that cos I don't add powder til the last minute, i.e. just before I give her the feed, this is a less risky option, even though my water is room temp not hot. Although I also agree with NSSA (and she's really clever!) that it wouldn't be hot enough to kill anything anyway??

Also confused cos I thought you weren't meant to make up the powder and then leave it for a while, even if it was in the fridge??? Blimey, I am actually quite intelligent but this has blown me away .

I did also think that a lot of guidelines are very strict because they have to be to protect companies or agencies from litigation. I suppose only i baby would have to be harmed for them then to have to state all this, IYSWIM.

Had a lovely time at little sisters, no lie as she lives in a studio flat and had to be up at 6:45am for work . Also, I really missed my girls .

Home now

only one baby, not i

ok so to put my mind at risk is it ok to put the formula in cold previously boiled water and feed DS2 straight away, how long will the bottle be alright for?

Again, as I understand it and I am not qualified in anything, you use hot water to kill off as many bacteria as poss and then feed as soon as poss.
If the water's not hot you don't kill bacteria with the heat but they don't have the chance to multiply if you feed straight away. using cold water then letting it sit is the worst option as any bacteria present in the formula won't be destroyed and will then multiply while it sits around.
Putting a cooled bottle made with hot water in the fridge doesn't stop bacteria multiplying but they would multiply much more slowly.
I think this is more important when feeding newborns as obviously an older child will be putting all sorts in their mouth and thus encountering bacteria.
All of these risks are very small.

sorry vvv quickly - lm have just posted on your other thread - some people are so rude i agree, and btw have you ever looked at the bounty site??? it's hilarious...

also GO AND SEE JAMES BOND it's fantastic and daniel craig is supremely yummy and brooding and moody and wow

and thanks for the birthday wishes ladies - yes it's today and i'm full of a head cold and am going to have 3 hours of "errand running" ie pottering at the shops this afternoon

I am genuinely sorry for going on about this, but it's really got to me, as I had honestly never heard of all this stuff.

I thought you weren't supposed to make up feeds then leave them in the fridge? I'm honestly not criticising what you do macoco but I am genuinely confused .

I really don't know what to do for best. I've been running it over in my head all day. DH thinks we should just carry on as we were...he's pretty at MN at the mo for making me so confused and befuddled....well, not with MN but with me for going on MN.

I can't help thinking that if I hadn't stumbled upon that thread, I wouldn't know any different and I would be carrying on regardless, just as I did with DD1.

I'm sorry to be such a pain. It wasn't even my thread to start with .

tell us more about the bounty site...is it part of MN or a separate thing?

LP, I don't follow the guidelines as they are now in that I make the feeds up hot and then cool them and keep them in the fridge. This is what the guidelines used to say. I'm not advocvating you do this but it is no better (as I understand it) than making them up with lukewarm water and feeding immeadiately.

By making them hot I kill bacteria but then take the (very very small) risk that they will multiply in the fridge before I use them.
Making them with cooler water and feeding immeadiately you don't risk the bacteria multiplying over time but you don't kill them off with the heat either so it's the same difference really as making up and storing.

You should follow the current guidelines. Make them up fresh for each feed with hot water and cool them and use them straightaway.

this is bounty

Right... I have called several food suppliers helplines...

The guidelines ALL of the companies have given me are as follows:

Boil the kettle.
Leave the water in the kettle to stand, for no more than 30 minutes.
The water temperature MUST be over 70degC when the powder is added.
This is because (i) the powder doesn't dissolve in cold water easily and (ii) cartons of powder open for more than 1 month can contain a bacteria which is killed off at tempertures higher than 70degC
The bottle should then be cooled in cold water and given immeadiately. The bottles made from powder should not be stored at all.

Cartons of RFU (250mls and 500mls) can be stored in the original container for 24hours once opened and for 1L, it is 48 hours once opened.

So, all we have to do is have a word with our babies and get them to place their order around 40 minutes of them actually knowing they are hungry and we'll be fine. Alternatively, we can have a little game of who has a nervous breakdown first trying to sooth a hungry baby while boiling the kettle, making the bottle and cooling the bottle!!!

Something tells me I'll be going back to the RFU stuff!!!

I'm still not convinced about the 70degC thing killing bacteria, but I have phoned 3 helplines and they all said the same thing, apparently it's guidance from the Dept. of Health.

SO there you go.... I have no idea when the guidelines changed, but it must have been recently, because I was told you could store made up bottles for 24 hours if refrigerated when I had DS.

NSSA

LM - sorry I wasnt around to support u on other thread, its one of the things that does annoy me anbout MN, people really tearing strips of others, I think they need to get a life! Its one thing to inform others of up to date info/thoughts/research but some people are quite frankly bitches in how they say it. Hope you are OK and recovered from the slapping.

With regards to the weaning, honestly chill out at this stage it really dosent matter if she fancies it great if she dosent try again tomorrow. As the weaning brigade so often say on here 'food b4 one is just for fun'. If its any help DD2 isnt a sparrow and ive given up with breakfast for a while as shes just not bothered.

The bounty thing is something to do with inappropriate advice (on weaning i think, cant remember, one of those things that washes over me, actually thats most things these days ) that they r refusing to change.

Loving the name change BTW

Thanks so much for the offers of costumes flick and ginger! So kind. Our internet has been down for 2 days so just got the messages now. I put DS in furry brown dungarees, bought ears and a tail and painted his nose and gave him whiskers, it was unbearably cute! Feel a little as I've always prided myself on homemade cstumes but we were having a new shower istalled, the house was full of builders dust and it seemed like one challenge too far! The party was lovely though, I'll put up a picture soon!

mumofkandj I've just been lent the Pantley book and it's teaching me a lot. Time for a bit of routine in this house, we so far have had none at all then wonder why DS is still awake at 2am . Not all OTT and gina ford-esque but some kind of structure would be good.

LM74 Sorry to hear about your tear, hope you're much more comfortable soon. All I know of Bounty is a very aggressive Bounty photo lady in hospital totally picking on this poor Polish girl trying to get her to buy photos and she clearly didn't understand enough English to tell her to get lost like the rest of us were!

DBM All's fine in the bedroom here. For ages I thought I just wasn't interested but then I changed minipill (from something else to cerazette) and I'm like a different woman! It's a bit scary how these things can affect our lives

pina Your 'hotel room' sounds fab, can we all have a go at being brought breakfast in bed?

Nssa I either put DS in his bouncer (unless he won't stop bouncing!) or in his Bumbo to feed. I couldn't possibly hold him and feed at the same time, I need another 3 hands as it is!

Happy Birthday Flick!

Thanks so much NSSA for your support (and the rest of you) but also for doing all that phoning today and finding things out.

I love the way we all stick together on other threads, like the May Mafia!!!

macoco I like your point, and 'get' what you mean, you are neither meant to make up feeds and store in the fridge or do what I do, add powder to cool water (not the aftershave cool water...that would be really silly ). Howver, both probably carry as much risk, hopefully very low.

DH also pointed out that if it was such a big risk, there would be more known about it. If the HVs aren't even in the know, what hope have us mums got?!