December 2012: The one were they are stubborn Monkeys

[halestone]

New thread for us.

Nutella, glad you are all on the mend

Delad, wow thats some eating

Yup he just kept chomping!!!

DS was like that yesterday Delad. Ate all his tea and said "now fish fingers and waffles". He was insistent so I made them and he ate them! Time to up the portion size.

I have switched him from piriton to Benadryl and he's started sleeping again thank god. Can't remember if I told you all but piriton made him manic last week. He was spitting, smacking and pushing at nursery (not at all like him) and he was made to do a full class apology at hometime as he was so vile to everyone mortified!

A full class apology! That's a bit full on. What's the piriton/Benadryl for? Would something topical be possible?
I'm being a proper grown up today and I'm on my way to a conference. It's my first one and I'm quite excited! although not excited enough to make the earlier train

WL enjoy your conference A whole day speaking to adults sounds wonderful.

Frazzled glad the Benydryl (sp?) is working better than the piriton. And wow i agree with WL a whole class apology sounds harsh.

arghhhhh i am fed up of listening to whinging and a complete refusal to do as she is told. Bedtime feels so very long away!

Hayfever WL. He has itchy eyes, a streaming nose and a horrid thickly cough without it so I'm thinking something systemic is best.

Enjoy your conference.

Sorry for being awol, I'm back after ditching the previous brand of mini pill I wa on as it was turning me into a miserable bitch, essentially. Shouting at O, losing my temper with poor A for pulling my hair (which, lets face it, is par for the course at 5 months,) and thinking some pretty dark thoughts. Even wondered if it was delayed pnd at one point.
I had a run in with microgynon combi pill some years ago so mentioned it might be that to dh who agreed, and within days of stopping I'm normal again. Phew. But also how awful that a tiny contraceptive pill can have such a catastrophic effect...

sorry for any news I've missed, happy birthday beasty, happy conference wl. Delad I'd just keep giving him what seems right, if he's eating it - it's not like he's craving junk.

we have a forest school option here spotty, which sounds awesome but isn't that cheap. If it's not hideous to ask, what do you pay for dd?

That sounds ghastly utopian glad you're feeling better.

I'm pleased (sorry?!) to say that the school is a state school and the forest school is at no additional cost. That and swimming twice a week in their own pool makes me so grateful, especially as there's only about fifty families in the school anyway.

Dd has an upset tummy again so no school until Friday. She's going to miss forest school this week

I feel bad coming on here and just asking for help. I read when I can but I'm terrible at keeping up and actually contributing to the thread. I think about you all and wonder how you're getting on, but rarely does everything come together in such a way that I can read and post before all hell breaks loose in one way or another.

So, I hope you don't mind, but I need to advice on behaviour. I just don't really know how to handle it all. T is a good kid mostly, we rarely have proper tantrums and he often does what he's told eventually. However there's a sort of general trend to his behaviour I find challenging.
When changing his nappy he will kick and wriggle a lot. I find it hard work, DH finds it absolutely infuriating. I generally try distraction, then a warning, then I will walk away and leave him at whatever point I'm at if possible. Usually with no nappy on, or still undressed etc (dirty nappies are very hard, as I can't leave him dirty, but can't wipe properly for the kicking). He just will not stop the behaviour though. Every nappy is a fight. He knows it though, if I say "stop kicking" he will often say "or mummy will go away", sometimes then proceeding to kick more and announce "mummy go now". When I go he starts crying, lays on the mat and says "you've not finished mummy".

How can I actually stop the behaviour? Is it possible? I know this is about testing limits and getting attention (hence walking away), but I actually want him to stop doing it. Particularly as DH gets so angry.

There's lots of similar things. Pushing his sister over, banging his fork on the table, shouting, drawing on things he shouldn't... He tells me what the punishment will be, does it again, then essentially tells me to punish him.

Are we too lax in our punishment? Is it just not deterrent enough?

Then there's the attention seeking. Bed times recently he's come up with some stupid thing for me to do. Tonight it was to get him a different book. I can either sit and listen to him wail it over and over again (getting steadily more furious) for ages (I gave in after 20 minutes today, nearer 40 the other day) or do it straight away. As soon as it's done he's quiet and shouts no more. So, do I let him boss me around and risk it escalating to more and now silly things, or try and nip it in the bud and just refuse?

Sorry for the essay. Thank you for reading!

I think getting the book is something you should just do as it's not worth the hassle.

Sorry if you've tried it already but what about completely ignoring the bad and praising the good? He draws on the wall? You take the pen and say nothing (btw four year old dd still draws on the wall). He pushes his sister? You move him away and ignore, give dd attention then distract him with a book etc. do you think he's ready for potty training?

I probably wouldn't punish at all at this age tbh but you might think I'm too soft!

Stacks I make DS sit in a corner when he is getting out of hand. He can come back when he will say sorry. So there isn't an actual time limit. He is usually pretty good about saying sorry and I find taking him away from the situation gives him a moment to cool down. Although he has just come out of a really trying phase. Both at home and at nursery
Lots of sitting in the corner, "DS do/don't to that/ get down now or ... 1,2,3 Etc etc etc."
If he is misbehaving and kicking at nappy change (I've had that) I usually get a bit strong with him. Which I don't like, but if I leave him he would climb down and run around like a nut getting really overexcited.

Funnily what I also noticed is that as I set the boundaries and he became more settled he would still flip out for DH. So I had to have a talk with DH and get him on the bandwagon and be really as consistent as possible.

It is a phase. He will get better. Find some fun things to distract him (telling DS I can see a miaow miaow works pretty much every time ) and be careful to ignore and not rise to the bad behaviour.

Utopian I had a pill that made me nutty and I thought I was mad to be blaming the pill. I went back to the dr and they said "yes, some people don't get on well with this" a little bit of forewarning would be nice!

DD is almost sleeping through! Hurrah!! And we are almost all healthy again after a horrible cold for two weeks and then a vomiting virus this last week

I get r to choose his own book. and then countdown from 5 slowly, giving him time to consider his choice to continue or do as asked. I started giving him a sweetie/chocolate egg (the diddy ones) for a morning or afternoon of dry pants as he was having little distraction dribbles so reminding him he wants to earn his eggy at lunch/teatime pulls him back too.

and yy to the sit until you're ready for a cuddle to calm down/say sorry. not so much time out as space to think. r gets lots and lots of praise for calming, changing his mind and making the better choice etc. if he's really on one, I cuddle him and ask where my kind lovely amazing r has gone and why is he choosing to be naughty which gets him to think about his behaviour a bit.

but I generally have a people pleaser so I have no idea if what I'm doing works or just happens to be what I'm waffling about when he chooses to behave!!

Nothing's helping with J at the minute. Today he made his 4yo cousin cry. He pushed/smacked/spat his way through nursery last week.

I've just completely lost my shit at (2 hour) bedtime and told him to shut up and then I had a very sweary rant with a RL friend who's son is also doing things that would try the patience of a saint.

I have no advice but fuckloads of sympathy! Arrrrrrrgh toddlers!

Calling it punishment is overstating it really, it usually just involves taking the thing away for 2 minutes.

Its 99% about getting attention I think. Maybe this is his struggle with having to share me now. He knows he's misbehaving, will say sorry quickly etc.

If he does something wrong in another room he'll come through and tell me so. He'll tell me he's pushed DD over, that she is sad because of it, and might get hurt. Says sorry, gives her a kiss and cuddle - then 10 minutes later does it again. I'm not sure I can give him any more attention than I am though. DD is a fairly happy baby, and is usually left sitting in a corner playing while DS gets lots of 1-1 time. If I need to cook lunch I get him to help, if I do washing or tidying he helps, if I'm feeding DD then he gets iPad or TV, and we talk about what's going on.
If I pop to the loo though, he'll do something for attention (from shouting "help" to getting a book to read or pushing DD over). He hates DH and I talking to each other, and will shoot "no, I talk" over and over at us, or physically try and separate us into different rooms.

I'm making him sound badly behaved, and he's not. He's very sweet and sensitive. He's full of energy and quite boisterous, but can be calmed down easily just by changing activity to reading or drawing.
He's great with DD (apart from a tendency to sit on her [playing horsey made me giggle, as DS is similar] to which she usually giggles!). If she cries he comes over and tells her "everything ok, mummy is coming" then tries to distract her with various toys.

Irish for stacks and frazzled. Repeat after me 'it's a phase and will pass eventually after much wine and grey hair
nutella yay for nearly sleeping through.
Hopefully in 10 days time dm should be able to start walking again. It's been 4 full months now that she's been loving here and immobile with us as her carers and I'm seriously tired now. Feel rather like I could unravel at any minute.

Oh WL I really hope she can. You're superwoman you really are.

I filled the ice cube tray today, the whisky has been calling.

WL i also have my fingers crossed for your mum. I also think your superwoman. I am not surprised you feel like your unraveling. When i use to care for my dad i use to regularily let off steam and that was before H came along. How you've done it with 3 Dd i will never know and a new job. I am so proud of your accomplishments.

Stacks, we do the same as Nutella really. I find H the same as you find DS quite sweet most the time but when she decides to not play ball, she becomes the most challenging child in the world. I managed to get Dp on the same page re-boundries in January and its been easier but still hard since then. When she starts acting up we tell her to stop, if she doesn't stop we tell her that she will have to go to her room if she carries on. If she still carries on we start counting backwards from 5, if we get to 1 we carry her upstairs to her bedroom, shut the stairgate and walk away. She often runs to the stairgate screaming so we ask if shes ready to say sorry if she refuses we step out of sight and when she says sorry she comes out the room and gets a hug and a kiss and an explanation as to why she can't do what she did. When we first started doing it she went in her room a fair bit but now mostly we just need to start the countdown part of it. She normally ends up going into her bedroom once every couple of weeks now. I know it sounds harsh but it was literally the only thing that we tried that has seemed to work with her.

Utopian, Thank god you realised it was the mini pill causing those feelings and came off them. I hope your new pill works much better for you.

Spotty i hope Dd is feeling better soon.

We do much the same as Hales, except we count from 1-3 (with 2.5 if there's no sign of compliance- fine until the learn to count and start 1, 2, 2 and a half, 3....)

It's a horrible stage, but this is where they learn about boundaries, sharing etc. Every time you put them in time out, or get them to understand that what they did is wrong, you're really being kind!

A is doing the not wanting adults to talk thing, which DD did and she's so much better now at nearly 5!

I think it's much easier 2nd time around, knowing that we will make it through and get an almost rational human being at the other side....

Heidi has just bust her lip on a straw! Honestly she is literally the clumiest child in the world. She has so many cuts and bruises and even 2 scars as well. I am dreading it when she is older if she carries on this way, me and Dp are going to be in A+E constantly. We were even talking about buying some steri-strips to have in the house constantly.

Steri strips might not be a bad idea Hales! Or learn how to glue cuts back together.... It might help ok, doubtful without actual proper training I suppose

beasty we do 1...2..3 but never a half number. I read somewhere not to and the reason it gave made sense I can't remember what it was so poor DS is stuck with just 1,2,3 and no flexibility unless he starts to make a move around "2" to do/not do what I'm telling him.

Hope everyone is enjoying this lovely weather. Poor H is fed up of me smothering her in sun cream, but loving being outdoors. We filled the paddling pool yesterday so she had loads of fun splashing around. But today we found a hornets nest in our back garden so have to get rid of that now

Oh no hales I hate hornets! We had a nest once at my dads and one landed on me aaaahhhhhhhh