March '13 - The One With The Babax

[Plonkysaurus]

New thread , and I can assure you all, it'll be a corker.

Shattered for me hospital scared me. It's so great that with all of our different opinions we can all aim for the birth that suits us best. Having choices rocks and the recent nice stuff was encouraging. I knew that in order for my labour to progress I'd need to be as relaxed as possible and for me that meant home, fresh air, darkness, cake Also I'd relatively recently lost my mum in a horrible hospital environment that made me feel sick....the two things were just too entwined. In terms of what I'd do again: hypnobirthing as I'm an anxious science sort (really understanding what your body is physically doing during labour and understanding the pains worked for me), not knowing how much time had passed so that I couldn't put pressure on myself and also not knowing how dilated I was. But I think these priorities say a lot about my character!

Oh, and Stormy, yes my legs are a bit on display in those photos as is my arse I hope they weren't too graphic for you all. Sorry if they were too much info.

Stormy I highly doubt I'll be too fussed about the state of the water. I think I spent 90% of DS's birth with my eyes fused shut anyway.

Shattered I think I went through an ordeal with DS (birth and the following 9 months) that I'm not keen to repeat. Labour started well, but I think going to hospital, being put 'on the clock' so to speak, and being constantly (if quietly and thoughtfully) interrupted didn't help. I had two lots of pethidine. I stayed at 5-6 cms for a really long time, so had one lot at the beginning of 5cms and one four hours later when they did a sweep at the same time. I transitioned quickly, meconium happened, DS was born less than an hour after the dose was given. We had to wake him up constantly for the next day and a half. He wouldn't feed properly, was floppy...I felt incredibly guilty and we didn't bond.

Goodness that sounds bleak!! It's not situation I want to repeat. But, let's focus on the positive things. If this pregnancy goes as well as the last one I will stay low risk throughout. That means being able to labour at my own pace, having a lot of control over the environment I give birth in, and not having someone I don't know getting twitchy if it takes slightly longer than a hospital would like. It also means DS can meet his new sibling straightaway, and I can get in my own bed too. And eat real food with actual nutrition in. Because a slice of toast and a muller light is not exactly recovery food.

Sorry that was a rant and a half. My head's buzzing a bit with it all tbh.

I hope the physio is effective and the spd doesnt get any worse before DC2 arrives! Poor you. FWIW I would probably not get a double buggy unless you plan on spending lots of full days out together. A single buggy plus buggy board and a good sling would probably suffice - presuming you also drive.

eco nice pins duck Must be all that lindy hop!

Ok well that's good advice ladies, thanks. Going to look at the pram tmrw so pretty sure I will go for it. I also now have a buggy board so hopefully that will be enough!!
plonk that doesn't sound good. My worry is that if no pethidine, then an epidural is the only other decent thing going? Did you not bond immediately cos he wouldn't feed? Going back and forth as to what I think I want in labour. I just found the last time so awful as the pain was so bad. I can see both your points on being more relaxed at home eco/plonk. Also sorry about your mum eco, I hadn't realised that was so close together. Also I forgot to say I didn't have you pegged as a smoker either!!! do you Lindy hop? I used to and loved it.
Agh derailing the thread on birthing. worse you had a 'good' experience second time didn't you????? I've been doing some reading recently, there's A lot of publicity around birth at the moment and it's scaring me!

Oh and plonk I've just read that you felt guilty. Why? The thing that pissed me off was that I would get pain relief eg for dental work or something like that, yet got nothing for something that was So Much More painful. I hope you don't feel guilty about having a bit of pain relief.

Own beds for birth do have some pluses. I was on my back in hospital (my choice; the midwife kept suggesting it might be easier in a different position but a) it wasn't difficult, just painful and b) I turned up at hospital already 8cm and by the time I reached the bed there wasn't space between contractions to move in) and those hospital beds aren't all that wide. In my own king size bed at home I'd have had space to try turning over without risking rolling right off the bed (a very real possibility as every contraction by that point had me rolling sideways).

You can't derail this thread Shattered, it's all encompassing!

As you can imagine, with me leaning massively towards home birth, I wouldn't have an epidural. DS was back to back, which was pretty uncomfortable, and I was getting stuck in certain positions. They suggested pethidine at first as a way to loosen me up. Honestly though, it didn't seem to numb the pain at all, only distance me from it. My biggest gripe with taking pethidine in labour was that distance, because I also felt distance from my baby. I barely reacted when he was yanked out. I didn't cry or smile or say anything. They took him away for some oxygen and I just watched. That alone is enough for me not to do it again.

Next time I'd rather try to cope with the contractions in other ways (like water, breathing and g&a) than take opiates.

But that's all me. How was your first labour? Your second will probably be easier! What pain relief did you have before?

stormy the appeal of my own bed lies in the fact that DH can lie in it with me. I didn't labour lying down at all (although delivered in that knees under armpits position) but if I did want to lie down I think DH being close by, lying with me, might be nice. Or his very breath might annoy me too much .

Shattered the guilt was over not being able to do the very best for my baby through my own lack of knowledge. I didn't bother to find out about how to cope in labour, or how to get bf established. I felt I'd let him down before he'd really even started. I can't say my PND was a surprise, I probably set myself up for it with my own ignorance!

Your pethidine experience sounds very familiar, Plonk. The moment I asked for it was, in hindsight, that moment you go through when you decide it's just not happening and the baby's just going to have to stay in there. Thought at that point there was no way I could do it with just gas and air. But in retrospect, I could have. Pethidine just made it feel like the whole thing was happening to someone else. Of course, if I hadn't been giving birth at the time I'd say it was a fun drug.

Shattered yes, I had a much easier labour second time round, shorter, and aside from having my waters broken to kick things off otherwise 'natural'.

First time was a 17 hour job, ending in a ventouse delivery because the toddle 's enormous head was stuck and her heart rate was beginning to show she was in distress. According to DH there was a bit of a panic on, but I was oblivious. That aside it was manageable, and not horrendously painful, probably because being slow I had time to build up my own endorphin levels so I didn't need any pain relief, aside from an injection when they cut me. I'm also a long distance runner, so my body is used to being put through the ringer. I swear that helped.

Second time was much more painful, but that was due to the speed things ramped up after my waters were broken. I suspect had I waited a couple more days I would have gone into labour naturally, and had a very straightforward birth. The one I did have could easily have been managed at home as it was fast, uncomplicated, pain was managed by gas and air, and the midwife stitched me up afterwards. No doctors or theatre time required.

Try not to worry. Easy to say, harder to do, as I seem to remember I was stressing myself about failed inductions and emcs not so very long ago .

Plonky try not to build up an expectation of a perfect environment leading to a perfect birth. The birth is important, but the safe arrival of your baby is even more so. Home, hospital, natural, intervention... at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

You didn't let ds down though! Far from it. I didn't research how to cope in labour, or establish bf-ing. I didn't even buy any baby stuff or attend any antenatal classes. I had so much bleeding during the pregnancy I didn't want to tempt fate. I was lucky, life gave me a manageable labour and a baby that bf easily. Life was harder on you, which was unfair, and you did brilliantly.

Worse you're right that I should manage my expectations. However, I feel it's important to try and take control over it. Last time I had this stupid perception that labour was just something I had to get through to have my baby, and I think I approached it the wrong way, mentally at least. I want to do everything I can to avoid hospital this time. Those places give me the willies!

Clearly I'm overcompensating this time. I do believe that fear is a very powerful emotion, so I'm trying to strengthen my will on this. Maybe you're right and life was unfair, but I didn't do anything to give myself a head start.

Stormy I dunno that I'd class pethidine as a fun drug. We probably have different ideas on that

Well I wouldn't class it as a good rave drug or anything, but, y'know, I'm sure it has its place. Possibly for comedowns.

I can see why you want to feel more in control this time, but I'm a little worried that could work out badly if things don't go as you'd planned. I think it's possible to feel in control if all goes to plan, but that's an illusion really. What happens happens and sometimes you just have to go with it. Knowledge, on the other hand, I am all in favour of. It makes you feel more in control and it stops you from being so scared.

plonky all the reasons outlined by you and eco about why you want/wated a home birth applied to me as well.

In terms of pain relief, I had absolutely nothing - I can honestly say that it wasnt until after the event that I realised that I had not even had a single thought during labour that I might need something. I think, like eco has said, I just got in the zone and most importantly I felt absolutely in control of the sensations I was feeling at all times and there was never a single moment of fear or painc. That is not to say that I didnt find it hard but it felt like I controlled the pain. My birth notes specifically said that no one was allowed to offer me pain relief or even mention that I might be in pain - so it was just like it was my own thing to deal with which worked for me I was absolutely convinced beforehand that I wouldnt need anything to help me. I guess I already knew what to expect from DD1's birth and I knew I could handle it. I had tried gas and air for another injury and it made me sick so I knew that wasnt an option and none of the opiate based reliefs appealed. I didnt have any pain relief option in the house ready.

Ultimately being at home made me feel safe, comfortable and confident. One advantage I had was that I had an amazing private midwife there with me who had looked after me the whole preganancy and who I trusted with my life. She was not constrained by NHS guidelines so there was no time constrains on anything unless it was necessary. She basically left my husband and I to it, apart from the regular heart rate check and I dont really remember her being present apart from appearing at the end to encourage me to change positions and then to help me catch DD's body when it came out. I had no internal exmainations, no one telling me how dialited I was, how long I had been in labour for, when, how to push or anything. I just got on with it myself and it was awesomely empowering.

I think having people you trust there is essential. My local group of independent midwives specialised in high risk women which NHS refused to help with a homebirth. They had the most amaxzing success rate - ony 10% transfers which is just incredible when you look at the hospital birth statistics for intervention. So I think arming yourself with loads of facts on homebirths and your birth, like research NICE guidlines and making sure your DH can take the lead making sure your wishes are respected is really helpful. We also had a local homebirth group meeting with mums who were planning homebirths or had had ones with stories to share which was really helpful so you might want to see if there is anything near you like that.

Couple of book suggestions for you that you might find useful by Kate Evans (not homebirh specific but really relaxed and funny books like both my husband and I loved and really helped) - www.amazon.co.uk/Food-Love-Formula-Successful-Breastfeeding/dp/0954930959/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426176534&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=kate+evand and www.amazon.co.uk/Bump-Make-Grow-Birth-Baby/dp/190843435X/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1426176534&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=kate+evand

I could go on and on but will end my essay here so as not to send you all to sleeo. Feel free to ask any other questions as you think of them plonky.

In potty training news - days 3 and 4 have been accident free!

Go RainbowToddle! Have you worked out a plan for toileting while out and about yet? I must admit I'm at a bit of a loss as to how it's done. Public toilets are way too big for toddlebums.

Fartypants has been in a nappy today. This is because the man took her out after breakfast and they only got home half an hour ago. New development in speech this week is telling us about things that happened earlier, like yesterday's wet pants and today's nice bus and big fish cuddle. She has fourteen new pairs of pants and she tried to hug a shark at The Deep. I meanwhile slept until lunchtime, and aside from hoovering, sticking a load of washing on, and cleaning the loo, have done nothing of note all day (unless you count playing Warcraft).

We have one of these stormy for when we are out and about - www.amazon.co.uk/Potette-Plus-Travel-Potty-White/dp/B001RH2RW4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1426181848&sr=8-2&keywords=potette+plus

Plus a hand towel folded under her in car seat (and will put an unfolded nappy underneath towel for longer journeys).

At the moment she seems to be using the potty every 1.5-2 hours so that is manageable when travelling and being out, although only done one trip for a couple of hours so far.

Shattered you can ask whatever you want! There's no way of guaranteeing not tearing and actually very few ways of decreasing the risks that you can control but because it's not your first baby your risks are much lower anyway. The chance of having an intact perineum or a very small graze or tear that doesn't need stitching are good and the most important thing is delivering the head slowly. That's a very difficult thing to do when that's often the most painful bit but just remember to blow or pant at that last bit or if you're in hospital listen to your midwife who will talk you through it and le them know at the start that's what you're scared of and they can talk you through it in advance. What was the worst thing about your tear last time? The initial bit or recovery afterwards? There are things you can do to improve both so worth having a think about.

As for pain relief I had an epidural. It was absolutely the right decision for me at the time and in exactly the same situation I'd do the same again, although I'm fairly sure if I hadn't had it I'd have delivered a lot sooner and had a very high chance of a normal delivery rather than a ventouse. I was aware of the risks but despite them I don't regret it because I know it helped me so greatly at a time I needed that help. I probably wouldn't have diamorphine again because it made me very pukey I'm a very pukey person anyway so there was always a good chance of that and I probably wouldn't have had pethidine anyway because the evidence for it as pain relief rather than a hypnotic is pants.

Eco Plonky and Rainbow I think your reasons for homebirth are/were excellent and it was so obviously the right thing for all of you with the way you feel about your labours. It is so nice to have such a broad range of feelings and opinions about it all. For me I'm so used to spending every day on a labour ward that it's a familiar and very comforting environment for me and one I often have control in so it was always going to be my first choice for delivery!

Stormy we were at The Deep last week! DD loved the penguins! We shall have to come and meet you there sometime if you fancy it, especially now we've got our years pass if I can find the slip they gave us last week.

Betty you were in Hell Hull and you didn't stop to say hello?! How shocking! But yes, next time let me know and we can let them hug penguins and sharks together.

Thanks ladies.
Didn't have anything except gas and air plonk. Also just made me feel disconnected but I guess as it wore off so quickly, and I didn't use it in second stage, I didn't have any after effects.
betty our local policy has changed to diamorphine since I had DS. I might ask for that with an anti emetic. Thoughts?
Honestly the worst thing about tearing was that I felt it was unnecessary. I had a junior midwife who was very hands off- ie didn't attempt to control delivery of the head at all. I was panting as told to so don't think I pushed too quickly. Having spoken to my senior community midwife she thinks the hands off is a generational thing. I guess I could ask for a more senior MW this time if one available?
Rainbow I am in awe of you not feeling any pain. I can't relate to that at all. Not in a 'that's not possible' way just in a 'that's the opposite if my experience' way!!
dC2 is obviously listening as I am being punched!

Oh and ps betty please pass on any tips I can take on to improve recovery. Aside from PF exercises which I know about!!

Shattered diamorphine works extremely well for a lot of people but I would say it works better in the earlier stages to allow you to relax, bring the adrenaline down and let your oxytocin do its things. By the later stages it does dull the pain but probably not enough to be the excellent analgesic it is in other circumstances. Definitely have an anti-emetic with it though! If you got through with gas and air last time is there a reason you're expecting to need something else? Do you wish you had last time or are you just being prepared?

As for hands on vs. hands off I'm very strictly hands on as that's what is always been taught and what sits comfortably with me. Newer midwives are indeed taught hands off but a lot of older and very pro low-risk midwives will be hands off too. The royal college of midwives compared the two approaches a few years ago and found no significant difference but it's a very flawed study as you can't really compare two different people of the same age, parity and size of baby and call them the same as everyone has very different tissue structure and perineal anatomy. You can definitely ask for hands on if that is your preference. I would say there's a good chance you'd have torn anyway as 80% do with vaginal delivery of first baby.

Recovery wise it depends a bit on the type of tear but keeping mobile, warm baths but no bubbles/washes etc, witch hazel on a maternity pad and then popped in the freezer for a bit, arnica tablets for the bruising, regular ibuprofen for the first week, veg heavy diet or gentle laxatives, drinking gallons to keep your wee dilute and of course pelvic floor exercises!

Betty you're a diamond, what a lovely response. Are diamorphine and pethidine kind of the same thing then?

Yeah I'm erring towards the hands of approach as I felt stressed by the interruptions and would like to be left to get on with it as much as possible. All papal preference if course.

DH went out for "a pint and a curry" with his work mates last night. Made a ton of noise at 1 am, got rocksmith out on the playstation and invited two of his colleagues to stay over. So I had the delightful experience of a poor night's sleep and coming downstairs with ds at 6.45 to find a beardy 35 year old public school boy doing curry farts on my sofa. The whole house smells of garlic, beer and trumps.

I don't know why I think birth choices have anything to do with the Pope. They're personal ffs.

I think I need to bake a cake and calm down.

plonky what a way to start the day. Bake a cake or two if that can keep your stress levels down.

I had an epidural which was a god send at the time. I was too tired to cope with the pain any more. I was lucky in that he slid out with little pushing. With every contraction ds was getting closer and closer and I kept telling the midwife he's coming out, I felt like he was to fly out. I remember when going through so much pain and the doctor told me I had only dialated 1 bloody cm. I must say I enjoyed my birthing experience once I was given the epidural. I knew when to push and was focused. I had a 2nd degree tear. For recovery I used to lay in a bath of salty water which was amazing relief. I also pissed in the bath with the shower on to relieve the pain. My iron levels were so low I had very little energy and that is why I now think I didn't appreciate the newborn days. I had an amazing midwife.

shattered spd completely went as soon as I had ds so hope that is the same for you. You reminded me how painful and uncomfortable it is with spd. You are getting there, not long left to meet babyshattered.

eco and rainbow thank you for sharing pics.

Slimming World at the moment is going well. I find the key is to plan all my meals ahead.

What are the People's views on childbirth? I bet he's got some.

Fartypants asked to wear her new big girl pants today. Still reluctant to sit on the potty when prompted, but I just got her to sit on it to read her new library books. Five minutes later: "Oh no! Wet!" I reassured her that wee in potty is good, we put a sticker on her wee chart, she had a "pirate treasure" (chocolate coin) as a reward. She's now happily playing with a sticker book while I try to figure out how to get this massive grin off my face cos it's starting to hurt.