November 2012 - Roll on summer, we want paddling pools!

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2060460-November-2012-This-is-the-new-fred-just-like-the-old-fred

I need to rant and ask for advice.

O has been difficult, very difficult for about 3 weeks now. I do think she will grow out of it and it's because of her brain changing but I'm at the end of my tether here.

First is food issue. She refuses cooked meal, shakes her head when in her high chair and wants pudding first. This is at lunch and dinner time, breakfast is so far so good. She would not eat anything until she gets a yoghurt or a biscuit. She refuses all kind of fruits, she has shredded apple in her porridge but nothing else. Tried berries, banana, purees, frozen, tinned fruit, no, nothing. Today she got in her high chair and demanded yoghurt and sweet things, shaking and screaming at the spaghetti bolognese. I put her to bed and will offer her the spaghetti once she is awake but knowing her she would want pudding first. The past 3 weeks I gave her as I didn't want to cause an issue but she gets so full with it that she can't eat her meal. This is repeated at dinner time. I'm so fucking tired of it, she has shredded apple as fruit and maybe one portion of veg per day. No protein, no rice, no pasta, Etc. Her milk intake has not increased , she seems to survive on yoghurts and snacks. I need to stop this and try to encourage her to eat again but whatever I offer is a no and believe me, I tried everything.

Other issue is tantrums, for everything. I can't go to the loo without her throwing herself on the floor. I am so tired of it, so so tired. She is an absolute angel outside but inside just if she gets 100%attention. I can't give it to her, I'm on my own :(. I know she will grow out of it but together with the food it's just draining me.

Her sleep is brilliant, 7-7 with a 2hour nap in between. Her language has really come on (she now says 3 word sentences) and physically she figured out a couple of things as well (climbing frame, stairs, etc-we are a bit slow of these things but figuring out).

So my main question is what to do with food. How to encourage her to eat meals again? Do I withdraw pudding and snacks (although I can't manage without snacks during the day so don't think she should either). I tried offering only fruits as snacks but didn't work and we had the same battle at lunch and dinner time. I usually give in because I can't risk her waking during the night, I need it for my sanity so please don't tell me to stay stubborn because It won't work for me, I need a different approach, it's honestly been now 3 weeks that she had cooked food. Any ideas? The only thing she will eat and sit down for is semolina pudding with honey and cinnamon.

stunt I'm so glad your mum could help you. Pls don't feel guilty! Hugs

Great news stunt

lily it is a phase and it will pass. V common at this age. She is testing boundaries and exerting control over what she can ie food and your attention.

For the food I guess you can plan to give all meals and snacks at set times and ensure pudding is out of sight until she has eaten or attempted to eat something else. And stick to the times - a schedule which would suit her.

We go for 7.30 milk and breakfast. 9.30 snack. 11.30 lunch. 3 pm small snack. 5.30 milk. 7pm dinner followed by milk if she wants it.

We have similar pattern. Milk at 7, breakfast 7.45, snack 9.30, lunch 11.30, snack at 3, dinner at 5.15, milk 6.30. She doesn't see any snacks, it's all hidden but she doesn't need to see it, she is so verbal. She says I want yoghurt/snack/breadsticks, etc. I know it's a phase but how do I deal with it???

Lily give her what she will eat. Please don't let meal times become a battleground. Keep offering the things you want her to eat, encourage her to try them if you can, but it's more important that she doesn't get into the habit of arguing about food. She's discovered that she's a separated person to you and she's frightened of this new power to say no as well as entranced by it. You pick the battles not her, ultimately you control what food is available so just make sure that she gets what she needs overall. It honestly doesn't matter if she doesn't eat fruit one day or only wants one thing so long as you look at her diet over time.

I agree with stunt. You sound like you're doing everything right. It's a battle you can only lose so keep offering a variety of stuff. She won't let herself starve. LO went a couple of days recently refusing to eat anything but strawberries and tomatoes. Went to the shops and bought a load in and she of course then decided she didn't like them anymore. But wanted grapes. Which she had refused for a week before that.

My fucking laptop has been installing updates for 3 hours!!!! It's a nightmare.

I agree. P more often than not refuses to eat after a few bites and wants some fruit. I offer it, she eats it and usually goes back to her main meal with gusto. I try not to let it worry me anymore. Sometimes I go through funny food moods too so I figure she is the same

Lily and stunt huge hugs

Lily it is a phase. We go in and out of it, here I've found giving whole things and letting him have the control of eating helps. So he won't eat apple slices but devours whole apples etc and hot food I chop and put on tray. I've found that carrot stick and home made chicken nuggets are things he will eat, with a fork on his own. Me trying to feed him spag Bol ends up with both of us crying.

I've found he is really exerting his independence and it's hard work but I'm finding little by little the coping methods.

Lily it sounds like a control thing so I'd keep offering lots of choices so she feels she has some say. I really do think you are doing the right thing. Perhaps offer her other choices to engage her - if J is being fussy he has two choices of savoury and I let him pick which colour bowl, spoon and fork he wants to use so by the time he's in the chair he's less in a mood for confrontation.

Stunt the worst cases do get prescribed both, ranitidine is generally less effective so I'd not be keen to substitute. Is he off soya? I'd cut that (much to DH's no doubt chagrin) before 'downgrading' from omeprazole to ranitidine TBH. I'm so glad your mum is coming over. Don't feel bad - you'd do the same for your kids in a heartbeat xx

Ah yes YW the purchase of a tractor plate and fork have helped mealtimes massively!

semolina is made from cassava and is a vegetable. use coconut milk and mash a banana in, that's 3 portions.

cauliflower cheese is a similar texture, worth a try?

R gets like this with teeth - will only eat smooth or dry foods. dunno if that's true for o but worth considering?

i wouldn't fight it. you won't win. role model healthy choices, give her a taste from your plate, and try not to stress. the quiche is listening

Now....there is always one, and today I am the one

I would stick to guns, I would put a meal in front of her and if she doen't eat it just get her down from her chair, do not let her know you are upset, as it is a control thing, just play a game with her. No snacks, just meals at meal time. Personally I would not want to be getting into the position where the toddler is In charge. I also don't like to be starting the routine of keeping offering a list of stuff at mealtimes.

2 of my 4 did this, DD1 I was so distraught I was offing alternatives, DS1 I just removed him from the table and carried on, then offered him the next meal, it seemed to sort itself out very quickly. Try both, see what works for you. Xx

Watching the food chat with interest, O isn't a great eater, but not awful either. Having had food issues, my main focus is not to make mealtimes a battleground. At the moment, trying to get him to sit still for breakfast is a nightmare, so he gets a bowl of dry cereal and fruit to walk round with and pick at and then gets some toast. He is very good with spoons and forks, but insists on using the grown up sized ones

I'm with Wanda I'm more along the school of thought where I just offer what is planned, like it or leave it (obviously if it is something new he might not like I'm fine with that). I just get him down. No snack offered.

I know you don't want to do that though so my advice would be useless :)

We don't do really snacks here but that's because he has a later breakfast. The only snack might be when he gets up from his nap as dinner here is at 6. Although he doesn't always indicate he is hungry.

Regarding cutlery. O doesn't use it really. He spoons a little in, but he hasn't got the fact he can't turn the spoon upside down without the contents falling off . He shouts to be allowed to use it. So he has a couple of goes, gives in, then we spoon it in. He hasn't mastered a fork either. Most of his food is finger food though. Or we let him think that it is .

Pasta and sauce gets a bit messy though.

We had our own food issues recently. Eating carbs and nothing else. It's worked a treat offering carbs last now :) he also loves condiments . If you cover anything with some gravy/ketchup/mayo/vinegar/balsamic vinegar/BBQ sauce etc he will hoover it up . Meal times as much happier now.

O's new words for the week are 'ud oy'. We realised after a couple of days he was saying good boy!!! Wee bugger! He claps himself and calls himself good boy. Nothing wrong with his self esteem

Detective I at the comment about self esteem. So cute.

Chasing me too, for the same but opposite reason, iyswim? I never force them to finish their food and try and help them make good choices. We're also trying to demonstrate good habits too.

Food chat always so interesting to me for that reason, because our eating habits aren't 'normal', and I worry I don't know what normal is to give DC the right start.

S likes his fork a bit too much (and adult one, because DD uses an adult one, because she is big not little like S). He tries to use it for jelly. He usually abandons the fork for fistfuls of food half way through.

DC have milk first thing (5am), breakfast of porridge/weetabix and toast if they ask for toast too, second breakfast on nursery days a banana or apple at about 9am, lunch at about 11.45ish, usually something like omelette or fish fingers or cheese on toast, tomatoes and cucumbers always offered and always totally ignored. They might have more fruit when S wakes from his nap and then dinner of whatever we have followed by jelly or something. They are only allowed pudding if they have had 3 mouthfuls of savoury. This is never an issue for S who is such a dustbin he demolishes most of what is put in front of him, plus DD's leftovers. If they ask for a snack they can usually have one, they tend to be offered fruit or dried fruit or baby organic style snacky things. Occasional biscuit or homemade cake might feature too.

Lily - must be tough but sounds v normal. Her verbal skills are so advanced that I guess she must need time to process stuff. To you though. Especially at the moment - I have been thinking of you.

Back on the wagon today. I'm not thinking about at all. Mmmmm, .

I think your eating habits sound totally normal zamboni

I've spent half the day trying to organise a puck up of some furniture I wanted to buy. I just needed a man with a van but both the contacts I was given gave me ridiculous quotes. When I told them to stick their quotes they halved them but on principle I told them to stick their quotes again. If DH had called them there is no way they would have tried that on with him. Twats.

Talking of useless bloody tradestwats my locksmith who has been promising to fix my door since JANUARY has put me off again til next week. I have tried several and he is the only one that came out and was able to source the missing bit. (Stupid doors came from Germany and I can't speak enough to deal with German locksmiths plus the call out fee would be ridiculous).

Frustrating day. Thank god my paed was sensible about LO's rash and handed a prescription over based on a photo. That has saved me a half day of faffing with LO and has saved her from hours of going to dr related tantrums.

Ugh and now the dogsitter I have been trying to deal with for months has suddenly decided my dog wouldn't be suitable for her as she would need to leave him alone occasionally. This is non negotiable for me as my dog gets destructive when left on his own. I had told her that several times and she always said no no she never leaves the dogs alone. Well oday she changed her mind.

I'm going to have to put him in kennels when we want to go away. It is too much stress to take him every time and we really wanted to go somewhere by the sea abroad in the next year or so.

Never, ever again will I get another pet when my dog and cat are gone. Over there you have nice kennels where the dogs get walked but here they are just put in small cages and left.

And the neighbours feeding the cat thing was a nightmare not to be repeated either - can you believe they are still sulking about me paying the kid? FFS.

Thanks Wanda. It's my main patenting worry, getting that wrong for them the way I have done for me.

PR - is the answer I think.

R only gets an alternative if i know the food is a texture he struggles with. And then i usually adapt what I've offered or defrost something healthy (broccoli and cauliflower puree with cheese) if we're in a rush. if it's something i know he likes, it's that or nowt. But then, i have one that would never choose nowt! i also see yoghurt as a healthy choice so if he won't eat dinner, that with chopped fruit gets shovelled in..

Current favourite accidental use up the leftovers pudding, natural you, smattering of available fruit, sprinkling of muesli, swirl of honey. Silence from both boys.

My little darlings are bundles of overheated overtired demonic joy this evening. Fun fun.

I agree with Wanda that you have to do what works for you as a parent when it comes to food. As my oldest had real food issues (J doesn't curiously enough) then it was something that needed to be micromanaged with offering the right foods at the right time, rules for the table and a system of rewards as well as praise and encouragement. The first time my DS1 ate spag bol where the spaghetti was touching the bolognese I could have cried with happiness. Now he hoovers down things he wouldn't previously have been able to put in his mouth like mushrooms and courgettes. DS2 isn't there yet but he's younger and his childminder did pander to him a bit by preparing different foods until he would eat. One of my mum's biggest hang ups is not wasting food and as a child I was not allowed to leave the table until my plate was clean. I suspect this was a key cause of my weight gain. It's not just that I am psychologically unable to leave food, I find it difficult to recognise when I'm feeling full so I keep eating until the food is all gone.

No hot water at bath time wtf.

Slightly screwed up tea - I put too much red curry paste in our sweet potato curry. Jonas was all nom nom wah with each mouthful. He still ate it but I hope I've not put him off food!