March 2013- here we go....

[Oodsigma]

Welcome old & new to the other side!

I'll start with a stats list!

Ood -ds 7/3/13, dc4! Elcs

If anyone wants to add any more details feel free!

Plonko your post yesterday morning summed up how I've been feeling. Sorry to hear it's a tough time for you also. When dh came back from work Monday I did walk out! Without my handbag or keys so pretty toddler like in it's effectiveness but I just needed to be somewhere else which ended up being the pavement two doors down :-)
Last night when dh came home I ranted unreasonably about how when he'd rung to see how we were doing from work he'd woken the baby I'd just got to nap after three hours of over tired wailing. Poor dh. Dd went from 0700 to 1600 with no sleep. That's got to be odd for a five week old? Dh responded calmly by brining me toast and whisking dd off for two hours. They went on a mission to buy napisan and I cooked a meal. First one in five weeks I've managed. And called a girlfriend. That helped but left me feeling bit Unhinged following my earlier antics.
I think it's fine to discuss pnd but perhaps what some of us, all perhaps at one time or another, is a reasonable and proportionate response to an incredibly stressful situation. We're inhabiting a mind (no memory, tearful, obsessed) and body (huge leaky Painful boobs, wobbly tummy, malfunctioning/sore lady parts) we don't recognise. We're sleep deprived. We've likely had swift transition from working lady to mummy. We're perhaps financially a bit stretched. We're hormonal. We're unable to do most of the things we once did for pleasure. Our relationships look very different. We've no idea how our future days will pan out. Our responsibility level has ratcheted up and we've been given a load of confusing, frustrating, up their own bum manuals (Hogg and ford) in order to cope. Is it any wonder we find it hard?! I don't say this as something that will make us feel better but just as an observation. We're finding it tough because it is bloody tough. I'm just glad to have you all for hand holding. Most grateful to you all for concern and advice. And I hope fellow strugglers are feeling improved. I'll come back with more later. For now dd been back to sleep for twenty mins so should really sleep! Zzz:/.

Excellent post Eco, sums it up nicely.

Pud that sounds like one hell of a poo?!
Worcs thanks for the encouragement about hitting six weeks. We've had smiles this end which after even the most intense three hour cry fest does indeed make it all melt away. It's almost as if nature's design is perfect: push us nearly to our limit and then give us a reward!
Eig and stormy I've thought about the day time blackout blind nap thing. I'm ready to bloody well try anything but the selfish thing that's put me off daytime darkness so far is that if we need daytime dark I'll feel enslaved to my home whereas I want dd to come on adventures with me that involve being away from home at nap time in future. I want a flexible baby! (don't we all) I'll think on tho as am desperate.
Once again run out of time as dd back to sleep with daddy after feed and it's my time to go to spare room with ear plugs for some off duty time. He'll bring her to me for a feed later (being as she's decided not to take bottles anymore gggrr!).
Foggy morning here.

I think eco makes a very good point. How much PND is really PND, and how much is actually just a total shift in one's life coupled with lack of sleep, lack of practical and emotional support, and the constant worry of not knowing what the hell to do?

You can get portable blackout blinds that stick to windows, which could be handy if you're visiting other people's houses. Otherwise, if you're out and about, hope for naps in the buggy? DD seems fine at those, she sleeps and wakes as she chooses in there and the arm restraints mean it's easy sleep.

I'm giving her 7/10 for yesterday. Napped well and fed okay, but had explodey poo and projectile vomit. Also was a banshee at bedtime, and once again went to bed without any supper because she was screaming too much to drink it. She had it half an hour later when she'd calmed down and had a catnap and was ready to actually drink. Woke at 6am but I gave her a dummy and a quick shush and nose-stroke and didn't hear a peep until about thirty seconds ago. I best go get the milk ready.

eco completely agree with your post. Can't believe we are nearly 8 weeks here. stormy what are you doing about jabs? I am wondering about delaying them because of the thrush, the first set are alot for there immune system to cope with on top of the thrush and it's meds..... Swing doctor tomorrow so will see what he says ....

Seeing not swing!

Had a crappy early night here! Mainly caused by limited afternoon nap! Will hade to do a buggy walk at that time tomorrow so bedtime isn't as scream fest.

Reading through it seems like good day time sleep is the holy grail we are all striving for. Now I'm no expert as her lady-ship is a bit of an amateur at the whole sleep thing, but I am noticing a pattern.

First 2 weeks - Piece of cake. Sleepy newborn, eats, sleeps, farts a lot and fills nappies. Not much else doing.
Week 3-4 - growth spurt. Sleep patterns up the swanny, cluster feeding, colic, and mummy in sleep deprived melt down.
Week 5 - Things starting to settle, but naps less predictable.
Week 6 - growth spurt no 2.... we re-enter the 7 circles of hell.
Weeks 6-8 - smiles, laughs, gurgles, and gorgeousness, but just where is that elusive day time sleep???

I don't buy into the whole blackout thing myself, as day is light and night is dark, and I'm pretty keen for the piglet to learn that one. It's doing stuff that tires her out. 5 minutes on the play mat and a bit of tummy time, a bath, or a visit to a friend's house. Stuff like that. She loves it, so much so she drops off. Here's hoping she grows out of this before school, or double maths could be interesting.... but for now I'm thrilled. We're on a new programme here - feed, nappy, activity, sometimes a little top up, and then... bam.... she sleeps . Worth a try if you're struggling.

Oh Eco. You're so right. In my experience the days do become more bearable but they're still hard because your baby never stops changing. You get used to doing things a certain way, whether that's length and size of feeds, routine, nap times (or lack thereof) and then baby changes the goal posts. Meanwhile you've got yourself to clean and feed, a house to keep tidy and clean (because mess makes me more stressed), food shopping to do and dinner to cook. Never mind visitors, phone calls and texts enquiring after you and the baby. More than once I've had to suppress the urge to just text back "FUCK OFF!" as I really don't have the energy to start alienating friends and family too. And with regards to wanting to leave, it really is just wanting to be Elsewhere, isn't it? It's not about your baby or your husband, or not loving then enough. It's bedding a mental time out.

Stormy there you go again with your words of wisdom. Yesterday was about as low as I've ever been in my life, including a period of real depression. But talking to my mum, my DP and a friend who's got three kids, not to mention you orrible lot, helped me make sense of my feelings. A morning of crying is ridiculously cathartic. I do wonder if we all still lived in enormous families with more generations together and potentially more support if so many ladies would feel so shit in early motherhood. They probably would, but I wouldn't say no to living with my mum right now!

Pud just how un-constipated is your baby now?

Oh and health visitors. Hmm. Mine caught me cuddling George on her first visit and quickly mentioned self soothing. She's trying to get me to go to baby sensory groups to aid his development. Sounds daft if you ask me. He has lots of toys and we play with him lots. Don't they develop on their own anyway? I waved a Lamaze toy at him for about ten mins yesterday which he seemed to enjoy for about as long as he enjoys anything. And he watched an awful lot of Seinfeld yesterday while I wrestled with The Guilt his new travel cot. Is that the wrong kind of sensory development?

Sounds a marvellous idea, worsester. Unfortunately, we are now at the stage where every bottle is accompanied by screaming. Breakfast she started as soon as the bottle touched her lips. Managed two and a half ounces, and a good big burp. Then I did the daktarin in her mouth and she projectile vomited. Won't drink any more milk.

Guilt about not breastfeeding is one thing. Guilt when you couldn't breastfeed and then can't bottle feed either is probably worse, because it comes alongside knowing damned well your baby is not getting enough food.

I find myself muttering "You're hungry, so fucking well eat" but she just screams. I stay calm, but she just screams. I ended up throwing the bottle across the room earlier, I was that frustrated, and yep, you guessed it, she still screamed. I can't cope with this.

Stormy you are coping! Coping is keeping you and your baby breathing. Anything more than that is an achievement! But I know what you mean with bottle frustration.

Plonko your friends and family ask after you AND your baby? I'm fecking annoyed with all of the 'how's the baby' texts and calls. 'what about me?' I want to wail! We seem to cease existing as soon as we've popped a baby out.

Expressing more milk here so that it can be poured down the drain this evening after a failed bottle feeding attempt.

Eco - save it for morning cornflakes? I have a friend whose mum puts her sister's milk on hers every day...

Stormy have you mentioned this to the doctor? Also what bottles are you using? It's really daft but we bought different bottles on a whim (self sterilising so we didn't have to travel with mountains of equipment) and all his fussiness went. Obviously I know it's not going to be so simple with reflux and thrush, but I'm still using the 'throw enough shit at the wall and see what sticks' parenting method. Turns out George hates Tommee Tippee. Also, do you have chocolate in the house?

Eco my friends can't get their head around me having a baby. Apparently I'm 'too young', so I think they ask out of morbid fascination.

leni that's grim. Even worse than DPs suggestion that I make cheese with my boobyjuice.

plonko I had cake. It helped slightly. Feeling a bit calmer, but utterly dreading the next feed. Due in half an hour, but she's waking up now. I mentioned it to the doctor at the six week check and he said to talk to the health visitor, who was due two days later. I explained the feeding issues multiple times - every time she asked how the baby was doing, or how I was doing, or how feeding was going, or if I had any worries. I explained the whole thing in detail about five times. She just nodded along and then moved the conversation on. She didn't even look in the baby's mouth - the oral thrush was spotted on her lip when she was right in front of the HV being weighed, but she didn't specifically go looking for any issues.

We're going to the clinic round the corner this afternoon to see if they can be of any help.

Hi Stormy - you poor thing. DD does the screaming hysteria thing at feed time too. I know it is really hard but try to stay calm and relaxed, give her a bit of time out, and try again later. A tip I was given was to try a change of scene. Go upstairs and do a nappy change, or hold her tight and go to another room and rock her. Don't try feeding again until she has settled. It is frustrating, soul destroying all of that, but it does work. Last night DH tried to give her a bottle so that I could go to bed early, and I swear the neighbours three streets away could hear the protests. So, he just stopped, and did something else, and eventually she tired herself out to the point where she fell asleep, and was able to feed properly when she woke up half an hour later. There is no magic right or wrong way of doing anything, as all babies are different, but they do respond to our mood and body language, so if you are calma nd in control she will be more relaxed.

(disclaimer... I may possibly have spent more than one occasion lying on the bed sobbing with her. Case of do as I say not as I do )

Oh my goodness so many posts since I was last on here. And such great points from everyone that I can't namecheck them all (left-handed phone typing while I feed DD). But all of us are definitely struggling by the sounds of it, to varying extremes of awfulness :(

My day was better yesterday. DPs came over so DDad could build a shed with DH and DMum and I just looked after DD. she slept for ages on my mum's chest and we sorted out all her clothes (newborn now replaced with 0-3 months) and I even managed to chuck a chicken curry into the slow cooker. We may also have watched a couple of Jeremy Kyles DD's been in vests/bodies and sleep suits since she was born so I'm going to try to actually dress her now in the daytime. If you have a DD what do you dress her in as I've mostly got DS's old clothes so don't really know what to go out and get!

In the evening I was shattered and ended up falling asleep for an hour with DD on my chest before giving her her last feed at 10:45. She then slept 11-5 which I couldn't believe! I think it helped that I'd swaddled her really well and those little arms weren't going anywhere [grin
So a good day and night here but I know it can will all change again soon.

Right, she's snoozing on me now so I'm going to catch up on Masterchef. I hope the sun is shining wherever you are and you all feel a bit better after yesterday/bad mornings today.

worsester totally agree with babies responding to mood. I absolutely never let myself get stressed or cry in front of DD. Even when she is screaming, I smile and sing and I think she really picks up on it and soothes very quickly. It is really hard for me not to feel sad when I look at her because it makes me imagine what DD1 would have been like at this age if she had not died but I am absolutely determined not to let this little one see me in any other state that calm happiness at this young age.

In terms of daytime sleep, I carry on with my normal day of walks, working and pottering round the house. I move DD to whatever room I am in and DD drifts in and out of sleep as she needs to. She has created her own routine of feed, play and sleep as a result. She usually sleeps 5-6 hours at various points during the day with about 2-3 of those being on the move. Going with the baby's natural flow is working for us for now at least!

Change of scene doesn't work. Nappy change doesn't work. Waiting until she's calm and then trying again doesn't work. I would love to be some sort of superwoman who's capable of masking all emotion but my baby won't feed. How the fuck am I meant to stay calm when every single attempt results in a screaming baby?

It's funny Rainbow as PIL gave me a book about why French kids don't cry (don't they... really.... ). Anyway, apparently it's all down to them being spoken to as if they are little adults. So no high pitched squeaky goos goos ladies, remember you could be talking to the future prime minister . In the interests of research I tried it last night, and had a serious woman to woman talk with dd about why screaming and hammering me with her fists was unacceptable. We may even have veered onto the topic of why daddy was having lettuce with his tea and mummy wasn't (and no, he isn't a rabbit). I'll be damned, but didn't it work? She looked quite interested in the end

Re un-constipated miniPud, lets just say that I'm glad it happened after his weigh in yesterday as I think it could have a meaningful impact! Screamed in obvious discomfort for an hour and a half (DH got home just in time to prevent meltdown on my part) then finally made wet-farty-I've-done-a-nappy noises so we went to change him. It was copious, very slightly green and the consistency of wet dough made with glue. We cleaned him up, using about half a packet of cotton wool due to the stickiness, only for another splurge to appear, rinse and repeat for about 5 times. Thankfully he was on one of my posh coloured muslins, which happened to be yellow, so I think I'll get away with it! Poor boy, it must have been horrid. Just hoping we're back to something more normal now and the experience hasn't put him off going again!

Hand holding for those with bottle issues. I sometimes find calming him with a little finger to suck means i can then sneak the bottle teat in and it sometimes seems like a good idea then. However, if he just screams round my finger I just leave it for that feed. Of course, bottles are only a top up here, so it doesn't feel quite so pressured. Hopefully your clinic might have some good ideas. (Could it be a flow issue? What teat are you using?)

Daytime napping ok here as long as we are at home and in our rhythm. Not keen on sleeping in carseat unless actually driving, so travel system ability to pop it on pram chassis (which is great and works really well) isn't so helpful and means I've got very good at steering it with a finger in his mouth. Maybe I should just admit defeat and get a dummy... However, does mean days out are a little more disrupted.

However, I braved a disrupted day yesterday and got my hair cut and coloured with the proper stuff again (off limits while pg) so feeling more human again.

Gp check was uneventful as predicted, though helpful. She went though all my minor concerns, agreed he has some silent reflux and did a script for baby gaviscon which I will get today. Re constipation, recommended cooled boiled water between feeds, poss with some apple juice diluted to 1:10 though I hadn't got that far when it cleared. My joint issues are prob hormonal, so give it another 6 weeks. And of course discussed contraception, not quite sure what to do here, as was on Cerozette before but it left my libido on the floor which caused some issues with DH. Bf does limit options and coil scares me a little, but need to do more reading...

Aw Stormy ((((hugs))))). Poor little thing.... Poor you. You need a break. Do you have a friend who could take her for half an hour? I hope the clinic can help.

PS It's ok to have a good cry. I certainly do.

Stormy leave her somewhere safe and step outside for 5-10 mins to calm down. She'll be fine but you need to think of yourself for a bit. She must have wound herself up and perhaps is over stimulated but even if she's tired or hungry she is probably now too overwrought (through absolutely no fault of your own) to do that.

Or can you stick her in a sling/buggy and go for a walk? Even if she's still upset the fresh air will do you good. Just go round the block.

Big hugs

wors I talked to DS and talk to DD like that all the time! I give a running commentary of everything from nappy changes to silly everyday things. And if you saw me in the supermarket with DS you'd think I was crazy, telling him about every little thing on the shopping list and lots more besides.

pud are you still on cotton wool? We didn't even bother this time round and went straight to the most sensitive wipes we could find (huggies pure in the end- v thick though).

rainbow I didn't know you'd lost a child. I can't imagine what it's like for you this time round

Concern appreciated, thank you ladies. She was actually perfectly calm and happy in her bouncy chair when I last posted. Her dad's just taken her up for a nap now because she's looking knackered. But suffice to say the implication that I'm bringing this on myself by not being a master of zen-like calm didn't go down particularly well.

It's just going to be one of those days, isn't it?

worsester I've no idea if talking to them like adults helps stop them crying, but in my limited experience it seems to help long-term for both their language skills and maturity level. There's a huge difference in vocabulary and maturity between those small children and the ones who were spoken to like babies. (Admittedly tiny sample size of about six children though.)

Yes to the talking like an adult! I feel like I talk gibberish all day long to little one but I think just hearing your voice is soothing - afterall that the main sound they heard in the womb! Definitely also good for language development in the long term.

Stormy its so tough when you have screaming at feeding time. We had a week when we had oversupply issues and DD would scream at my breasts through every feed which was truly awful. I could feel the stress rising each time and DD would really respond to that and seemed to scream even louder causing a downward spiral for us both! So for me masking those type of feels and putting on a smile, talking gibberish and singing just for the benefit of DD really helped and has ever since. I am happy to force myself to be a certain way in front of DD no matter how I am feeling as it seems to benefit us both. However it certainly is not always easy and I find it takes a lot of determination to create a calm environment even when you feel you are being driven to madness and nothing seems to be working!

Oh no Stormy, no one was suggesting you were bringing dd's meltdowns on yourself, far from it. Babies do what they do for reasons best known to themselves. Actually scrap that, they have no idea why they are doing anything either. We were just suggesting things that work for us.... sometimes!

I'm lucky today, I have a model baby. A few days ago I had one that screamed for 6 hours solid. I haven't done anything different.