Nov 05 Babies - They're ALL here!

[Rodeo]

Here we go, was going to write something lovely and meaningful, but I'm not very good at it so I'll leave that to someone else.....

Sorry havent been posting much - seem to spend every moment BF. Will post later when i have time, but just wanted to reposnd to Enthusia befroe i have to go out.

Diege is TOTALLY RIGHT! These mums are just insecure if they are making comments about how you feed your baby. I am SO SORRY you are feeling this bad about it.I suspect they are all first time mums as those of us who have been there before knwo its not that simple.

Most breast fed babies will get formula and/or use a bottle at some point. Most of us here who are Bf are also expressing so our babies are alreday getting bottles.Several of us are "topping up" with formula. Most of the rest will give it later this year. Very few mums will Bf exclusively til their baby is a year and they go straight onto cows milk. My experience is that very few of us measure up to the "ideal" as laid out in all the Bf books.So for most of us its not if your baby gets formula or a bottle, its just when.

You asked - "Surely a happy mum feeding formula is better than a mum sinking into depression becuase she feels she has to breast feed?" You knwo the answer - YES YES YES you have done the very best you can for you and your baby and you have to hang onto that.These mums in your group might not know that but we do!!!!

BTW if you have a logical brain, Enthusia, I am very impressed. Think I left my brain in teh hospital - I am tearful, emotional, irrational and tired. Those pesky hormones........

Sorry just read my own post and realised it might offend first time mums - sorry didnt mean it like that ....

Enthusia sweetheart do not beat yourself up about this feeding lark, Sam is a perfectly happy, healthy little boy, who is getting the best of both worlds, he is getting goodness from you & a little extra help to satisfy his hunger from the bottle. You are doing a great job & don't let your HV tell you any different.
Far too much emphasis is placed on bf as far as i'm concerned, i did the same as you are doing with Ben and he is now a strapping 3ft 9" with not a spare ounce on him, he is incredibly bright [not sure where that comes from, must be the formula] and he is a happy go lucky, adventurous little boy.
The way they grow up depends on what you do with them to stimulate their minds not what you feed them with for the first few months.
If it helps, i gave up feeding Thomas at 6 weeks, 'cos he kept throwing it all back up and he is now solely on formula and he's reaching every milestone on time if not a little before so tell your HV if all she can do is criticise you & not give you the help & support a new mum needs then you'd rather she stays away and you'll get Sam checked, weighed etc at your GP's clinic on a regular basis.

Right i'll stop now but as you can tell i feel very strongly about this, Sam needs a happy mum, not one who is on a slippery slope to pnd, so hang on in there you are doing a great job and Sam is a very lucky little boy to have you. BEKs

Glad you're feeling a bit better Enthusia...I have been fuming since reading your post.. Agree with Rodeo about HV too - you can do without 'support' like that! As others have said, we've all been there, and it is horrible that your confidence is being undermined at such a special time.
BTW, it's funny about looks you get from other BFs, as round here you get a well dodgy look if you are BF , with people smiling and commenting positivley when you get the bottle out . Not that this is right either (ie, not feeling comfortable to BF in public), but just shows how different it is in different parts of the country.
Re: meet-up, would like to do Manchester, and was thinking maybe a quick meet tommorrow too in Warrington if you fancy some company? I could get the bus after Jo Jingles, getting to Starbucks at about 1ish? Alternatively, do you fancy having a spot of lunch at mine? Not sure if you have the car, but could give you directions, or meet you at Village then make our way back to mine on bus - I don't drive (about 6 minute bus ride)? Just some ideas!..

Sorry Kristina crossed posts with you while typing one handed, nice to see you back i'd been wondering what had happened to you.

I've got to say I agree with everthing you, Diege & Rodeo have said.

Your comments about hormones has put everything back into perpective for me too this morning, your comments normally do so don't stay away for so long next time i need you to keep me sane!!!

BEKs

Oh Enthusia, glad you are feeling better but so sorry that you were feeling awful.
What the others have said is all true and you know that Sam needs a well, happy mummy so sod the rest of the world and their opinions. I still say punch the bl**dy HV's nose if she dares to suggest cutting anything out. A screaming baby will send you into PND just as easily. You are his mum, you know him best.
When did you last get him weighed and when are you thinking of doing it again? I'm more than happy to get Ash weighed as well so we can compere. They are about even so far and you can put YOUR mind at rest about overfeeding. I think they are both just big, healthy boys - hurrah for the 91st centile I say

Diege - if Preston were my boyfriend he would be seriously dumped. Talk about making it crystal clear how much he fancies Chantall, he is all over her like a rash. And what about Chantall - happy being his 'disposable camera!'

Enthusia - stop beating yourself up. As mothers we have a lifetime of guilt ahead of us anyway (sorry ladies), but think you are starting a bit too early! Agree with Diege - there are much, much, bigger things to worry about - just you see!

Wish my boys were on the 91st percentile. Give youself a pat on the back for doing a great job.

i have to add this story Enthusia, as I went through a period of guilt about not bf-ing, and have also had some health professionals (and MIL) go 'so you're bottle feeding...'

My friend had a baby last March and she exclusively breast fed. He has excema, an allergy to cows milk, and has been in and out of hospital with various viruses etc.. She found bf-ing hard work and began to resent her baby for wanting her all the time.

I have bottle fed from day one and (touching lots of wood) Natalie hasn't been ill, and according to my doctor, it's good that Natalie has a little more meat on her bones, and it's when you wean that you can start to watch weight gain. She jumped from the 25th to just over the 75th centile in 12 wks.

Now this is not meant to upset/offend bf-ers out there as you are doing an amzing thing for your babies, I just wanted to offer some reassurance to Enthusia that not everyone is like the books claim.

Funny how HV attitude is completely different with twins. Expectation is that you won't/can't breastfeed two. Everytime I see mine the first thing she say's is 'oh, you're STILL breastfeeding then'. I'm doing exactly the same as you enthusia, a bit of breast and then the formula. If it is good enough for twins, it is good enough for a singleton.

Hi Enthusia,

Sending you a massive hug! How are you feeling now? I agree with what everyone has said so far and 'fingers up' to the HV. How insensitive! I have only just discovered the pressure put on mothers to b/f, I felt it for the first time yesterday. DS seemed to be doing so well. The HV had told me not to worry about his weight gain as he'd been ill and needed time to regain his weight. She was v.supportive and I was confident that all we needed was some time. During the same day I had our 6 week check with the GP, she made no comment about his weight and I returned home feeling happy - ready to b/f as often as possible to ensure good weigh gain, however GP phones me 4 hours later and is suddenly 'concerned' about his weight and I must go to the hospital 'now' etc..etc.. Well, after that and all the questions from at least 4 different health professionals wasn't feeling too confident about my b/f or his weight. Anyway, I EBM twice yesterday as a topup and fed him best I could but by the evening he seemed to be struggling to feed (think I milked myself dry) and so I decided there and then that I will start topping up with goat's milk formula. Z hardly ever cries like that, he's great thank God, but those shrill hungry piercing cries were enough to make me cry and feel totally inadequate. So, just as I was ordering the goat's formula online, I see the important note: Breastfeeding is best for babies and felt guilty and started to think about the reaction I'd get from all my friends who have managed to exclusively b/f their kids for up to 2 years! Is it okay to admit that the word 'failure' came to mind?
Sorry to go on about my feelings Enthusia, but I so know how you're feeling. I thought I was doing fine until the problems arose with this weight. I've tried so hard to cajole him into opening his mouth wider but he gets really frustrated. Remember you mentioned the beating fists on chest and frantic head movements? It so upsets me.
You have to do what is best for you and Sam. This is what I'm going to be doing now. If he is happy with what I give him then so be it. As Beks said, those kind of attitudes are just paving the path to PND. Also, the b/f threads are fantastic, great advice from all but I would suggest laying off them for a while too. Just do what you think is best.

Geesh Enthusia, really sorry if i've gone on but I so wanted to post something similar. Felt I could share that with you.

Tessasmum - Thank you for your kind words. Glad that Tessa's first day went well and that you weren't too distraught. Dreading Z's first day. My mum said I turned round and waved her goodbye with big smile on my face while she stood there weeping!

Kristina - At last! We've missed you.

Golden - I watched ER for the whole of 20 minutes. The new series is pants IMO. What do you think?

Meant to send best wishes too, to Londoner on her daughter's operation today! Let us know how it went when you get the chance, and hope ds is better today .
LOL Golden/Nova about CBB. Agree, being compared to a disposable camera is not particularly flattering Felt sorry for Chantelle when Pete was having a go about her (lack of) intelligence, as she was quite hurt I think, but for goodness sake girl get yourself some pride!
Well, going to bite the bullet and get Libby weighed this afternoon (something I've previously avoided because of HV comments). Here's to the 25th percentile I say .

Hi everyone.

To add to the bf/formula discussion. I'm doing the mixture of bf/formula and mostly feed him expressed breast milk rather than pop him on the breast as he fusses a lot and I don't think he gets a good feed. I personally never had that moment when I thought breastfeeding was the most wonderful bonding part of motherhood and although I'm glad that he's had the benefits of some breast milk I don't feel any less bonded to Nate just because he's not sucking at my breast. He's now turning into a chubby little thing and I'm not sure if that's the formula or not, but aren't babies supposed to be chubby? I do not believe you can overfeed a baby when they are this young.

Also in terms of the bfing turning your child into a genius child model - as my aunt pointed out to me, in the 70s formula was the recommended feeding and so there is a large chunk of the population in their 30s now who were exclusively formula fed and I bet there's plenty of genius child models amongst them ...

Enthusia - it is what works for you that is best for both you and your child. A HV can only tell you what they recommend, they don't spend 24/7 with you and your child and so cannot tell you definitively what's best for you. One HV who visited me discovered that I was topping up with formula AND using a dummy (bad bad mummy) asked me why I wasn't trying to exclusively bf - I told her that to do so I'd have to have Nate on my breast his every waking moment - to which the HV replied 'Well, what better things do you have to do?' In retrospect i should have kicked her out of my house, but instead mumbled something about wanting to be able to eat lunch once in a while without having someone else having to cut up my food ...

Anyway have a very cranky child this morning so gotta run - JenJam & Golden I was going to try and come to the movies this afternoon, but it's not looking likely now, as I'm still in pyjamas and I don't think I'll make it out of the house before the movie is over they way things are going this morning (three nappy changes in 2 hours so far)!

J xx

ChaCha - yep, the new series of ER is just not as good without some of the characters that have left. Who cares about Kovac and Sam. I'll have him!

The surrogate mum/refusing c-section/brain damaged baby/abandoned by all parents, story line upset me tho.

LilJ - I will be at cinema, but planning to snooze not watch film zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Diege - don't think Pete is the sharpest tool in the box either, but Chantall brings it on herself by acting/being a complete air-head. I so wish she would take those extensions out. Everytime I look at her I think 'how many dead peoples hair is she wearing?'

LOL GOlden about Chantelle! ; you're right, there's not much going on up there, but I can't help feeling sorry for her as she is so young, and just wants to be liked I think, but her behaviour is extremely cringeworthy and very irritating (that 'laugh')! Agree about her extensions (they are bad, according to my hairdresser's professional opinion, and half of them are actually falling out!). I'm having mine put in again next week BTW...hope they are not from the dead (this is what my DH thinks!). I am definitely not aiming for the Chatelle/Jodie look though!

Thanks everyone for your support, I feel so much better now and feel I can face the HV with a bit more confidence. Sam is doing well and is perfect, very content and happy. Yesterday was horrible when I didn't bf, he was so hungry. Today I am back to normal and he is sound asleep on my shoulder. I haven't had a single serious cry yet.

I am sorry I made some of you fume or feel strange but it just got to me so much, as I am trying my best and obviously want the best for Sam.

You are all quite right, I do know my son the best and I should really stick to that!

Cor this HV better bring a flack jacket and a mini army with her.

ChaCha, thanks for your story, hope things are getting better for you, I really do know how you feel. Sending you a hug.

Nova and Lilj - thanks for your messages, just shows bfing isn't everything, there are contributing factors!!!!

Beks - glad to hear thomas is more settled on formula as well. Sorry I missed the meet yesterday, would love to have gone, just too knackered and too much to do!

Tessa, thanks for the support and encouragement. Sam is getting weighed today, do you know what Ash weighs at the mo?

Kristina thatnks for your support as well, think the idea of its WHEN you go onto formula not IF is really one to remember, and I do know inside that it is better to be happy, but sometimes things get on top of you and logic slips away - as you seem to know by your second post!!!!

Goldenoldie - great more guilt to come - is that the dictionary definition of mother do you think

Diege - Can do both if you like. No I won't have a car but have no problem going by bus to your house. Please do whatever is easier for you. Have you heard from Twinkle recently? Still no answer to my text. Hope she is ok.

Oh and Good luck Londoner's daughter, hope it all goes ok!!!!!!!!!

Right packing here I come, I might try and think of some good quips so they are ready for the HV at 2. I will let you know the outcome!!!!!!!

Well, I should be having a nap, but

Didn't mention that Z slept from 12.30pm until 6! Woke up with him, he fed until 7, we sat and cooed until 8.30 he fed again and slept until 10. He is asleeping again now! Was a bit worried, told my dad who just nodded his head at me but then heard him talking to Z saying 'What are they like eh? Worrying when you sleep too long, worrying when you're awake too long, worrying when you pooh, worrying when you don't pooh...' I had to laugh, it's so true!!!!
Well, having been up so early and with him sleeping have done loads! Feel v.pleased

Hey, I just found this site: www.yourdesign.co.uk, so three guesses what i've been doing!!!!

Good luck with HV Enthusia. Z is also being weighed at the hospital today. I'm a bit nervous, but will be glad one way or the other of the outcome.

Londoner - I missed the post about DD's operation. Praying all goes well x

Enthusia: wonder if your HV's ears have been burning this morning! Bet she's dead nice this afternoon (always the way when you're ready and waiting for the attack! ).
Am happy for you to come to me tommorrow - might be a bit easier than in town for me. Am assuming that Twinkle will be able to make Manchester on Friday? Hope she is OK.. Me on my own twice in one week might be too much for you , before you know it I'll be turining up in Liverpool as well! If tommorrow is OK, shall we come and collect you then get bus, or would you prefer bus details and to make your own way to me? Or would a taxi be easier (though would you need a car seat!! Arghhh...my brain is bursting!!!
Well, have been spending far too long on computer this morning. Will wean myself off for an hour or two! (and try my new exercise videos which arrived this morning! ...well, watch them first for safety reasons...)

Diege - what would be easier for you, bus, taxi, me making own way there or you collecting me? Really is up to you!!! We are easy and glad ofg the company. Can't wait to see you

ok screaming hungry baby back later

Oh good luck chacha and well done.

Right!! I'm going to bite the bullet Enthusia and make a decision! . If it is ok with you, I will get the bus to the Village hotel with dds, and meet you in reception area at about 12 noon? We can then get the bus back to mine. I will have to leave to get dd2 from school at about 2.30, but that leaves you your afternoon free (if you can stick it that long with us!). Hope this is OK? .
ChaCha: good luck this afternoon ; I love your dad's comments; they made me laugh as LIbby had been having a sleepy morning, and his words put things into perspective.
Right, going to take the cellophane OFF the videos...

Afternoon!

Met Seth&Laylasmum and baby Seth this morning! I'm pleased to report she is lovely and Seth is beautiful, just like his pictures. Had a great time , talked about us all which is strange not knowing most of your RL names (Chacha, Nova, Goldenoldie, Busy - what a bunch!) trying to talk quietly so people didn't think we were mad!

Hope you're feeling better Enthusia, and are prepared for this afternoon, try not to assault her though

Good luck with the weigh in Chacha!

And good luck to Londoner's little dd1. Sending get well hugs and kisses her way x x x x x x x x x x

All this talk of HV reminds me of my BF, Jenny. Over christmas her HV said to her 'oh well, you won't be drinking anything, you're bfing' to which she replied 'oh yes I will be!' and she said that (and these are her words not mine!) that the HV looked at her 'like a sh*t had fallen out of her mouth'!!! Had me (and my 'posher' friends) howling with laughter I love her coarse language!!!

Right, going to Toddlers now, speak later, thanks again for earlier S&Lmum x x x

LOL Diege - I can't help laughing. You get the cellophane off today and perhaps you'll get them out the box tomorrow, possibly in the DVD/Video player come Thursday and find the remote by the weekend Surely that counts for exercise?

Well best him ready for our hossie visit.

P.S. Am I the only person on this planet that cannot stomach BB? I have been channel hopping since DH brought home a monitor that doubles into a TV (not using PC card) and I have to say don't feel i've been missing much. That Noel Edmonds one is alright but i've taken to DVD's - Hide and Seek is on tonight's menu, did anyone see Crash?

Bye for now x

Oh God Diege, don't do it!! You can't return them if they're out of their packaging

OMG Rodeo, ROFL This happened to me when I met a fellow Mumsnetter. We were sitting in a coffee shop having a chat and whenever a 'web name' was mentioned I'd look around in a rather sheepish manner.

LOL Know that feeling exactly.

Anyway..glad you had a lovely time.

Must get off PC but cannot help laughing...

'So, how is Novadandypowder?'
'Oh She and her DD are fine..Enthusia saw her HV today'
'Oh really? And how are Golden's twins?'
'Yes they're okay, have you heard from Rodeo...'

sorry, must get a life! Definitely off now. You will be relieved to know