April 2011; springtime arrivals - blackbird, song thrush, mistle thrush, nipple thrush, nappy thrush...

[ILikeToMoveItMoveIt]

Here we are, our new thread and this time we all have our babies !

I thought we were getting thrush again, but then realised I had let ds's latch get sloppy. He was constantly clicking and tutting at the breast but I was too distracted to notice.

Ds and I made butterfly cakes together this morning, ds got to choose the colour of the buttercream icing ..... It is a very lurid shade of pink and they are covered in sugar strands. You can never have enough sugar!

Pet - it's exactly the same here in the daytime. It drives me mad and sometimes I wish that I could go back to work and DH could have paternity leave!

I find it really hard to get P to sleep. DH is much more patient than me and will rock her and sush and pat her to sleep in her cot. I can get her to fall asleep in my arms but she wakes up the minute I put her down. It's so exasperating - obviously I can't sit on the couch with her all day while she either sleeps or feeds. She never drops off on her own in the daytime.

I just want you let you know that you're really not alone! P sleeps ok at night but she only averages 11 hours sleep in every 24, much less than the 16 that is quoted in baby books. Let's just tell ourselves that we're lucky to have such alert babies!

Thanks star, it does help. I helped to just vent too. He's still in his cot, starting to grump now. But I feel a bit better after a shower.

I'm going to try leaving him till he's been there an hour, and call it Nap Time.

Starting to think we should do dome self settling...

Daytime naps very hit and miss here too. S will nap about 30-45mins in the sling at a time as I potter about but won't sleep anywhere else really apart from maybe in the car. I'm clinging to the hope that when S starts being more mobile she'll tire herself out more and sleep longer stretches because she is almost always in meltdown territory at bedtime these days and getting harder and harder to settle. 16wk regression - ha, we'll have nowhere to regress too at this rate

MrsW & Daisy hope your LOs colds improve a bit today. It's miserable for everyone when they get colds. Hate that GP receptionist attitude too that you're constantly at the ready to bolt out the door.

Hope your mood stays on the improve too MrsW. I think pregnancy and then having a new baby messes with everyone's mind to some degree but hopefully things will start to settle soon.

I'm looking down the barrel of 4 days on my own with the LOs as DH has jetted off to the sun for his work's annual holiday.

Oh heck, 9.30am and we've already had an outfit go in the bin. There was no hope of getting the poo stains out of that babygro (and it was white!).

Anyway, what have I missed!

Weaning, we're going BLW route, because i'm lazy we hope it will help avoid S becoming a faddy eater like DH. We're also going to give S meat, and then let him decide if he wants to be veggie like us later on (we got to decide so seems fair to let him), I'm not entirely sure how this will work and can seem me re-introducing some white meat into my diet so that S sees both meat and veggie as 'normal'.

Pushchairs, S went into the seat bit last week and seems to really enjoy being able to see more. Like Cycle I lay him flat again when he looks sleepy, though so far the novelty of being nosey is stopping him sleeping in the pushchair!

MrsW and Kittt I know just what you mean about having been there and not wanting to go back. I've had some very wobbly days but I think it was mostly normal hormones but I was worried about it developing into PND so would worry and over think things even more.

DTD, ha, nope not here! I'm partly scared and still don't feel right down there. The stitches are fine (better than I thought they'd be) but TMI I feel like something has dropped inside and is blocking things . I've got another physio appt next week so I might mention it and see if she thinks its due to my pelvic floor or could be something that I need to the GP for.

Not that I have to worry, we've looking at 4 years before trying for another. I want a second before I'm 30 so that gives us a year's le-way!

In other news, I think I have boob thrush nothing I can see in S's mouth but my nipples are sore and 'tickle' and I keep getting intense aches in my breasts. If it is I'm sure I've had the full set of BF ailments!

Wow, busy today! I got do engrosed reading while pumping one of the bottles leaked all over me and the chair!!

B is still sleeping he did 8-5 then was back down and sleeping by 5.30.

I have checked him about 100 times thinking i might wake him so we can get ready, but no!

We(me&B) are heading north ourselves today and staying til Saturday. Wish me luck!

Good lick with you GTT Ali! I did both of mine using Lucozade rather than the goop, I just had to take a 500ml bottle with me.

MrsWajs B is now in the pushchair part of the travel system as his head wasgetting bashed ont he top of the pram when he kicked his legs. He looks tiny in it, but he much prefers noseying(sp?) when we are out and about!

AF arrived today, so that probably why I bit DHs head off last night, oops!

I cna hear grunting and thumb sucking coming from upstairs, I swear he hears me typing and thinks "no mummy, pay attention to ME"!!

What is with MN being all broken?

Jen yay for the loving feeling and the colic free baby.

To all those struggling I hear you. I have days where I?m terrified of slipping back and don?t want to go outside (agoraphobia is an big, big problem for me) and the responsibility of one baby terrifies me so I?m not totally sold on 2 yet, but then the other part of me thinks sooner rather than later is probably a better idea. I still have times where I think I?m just caring for M?s physical needs ? mostly when I?m knackered.... We?re reviewing in October (I don?t want a baby born Sept-Dec) and maybe I?ll get upduffed quickly again. Work may go mental.

:( daisy and mrsw on the colds. It?s utterly miserable, isn?t it? I found the horrible saline stuff you squirt up their noses to soften the snot and hoover out with one of those snotsucker things actually helped, despite the screaming.

kitty M has just gone into his pram, I might put the back up a little (it?s very adjustable unlike the ones which have set positions), however he tends to slump to one side if not properly supported and with my history of scoliosis I?d rather avoid creating any problems. He?s definitely too big for the bassinet now He still prefers sling though

Fingers crossed for the GTT Ali Hopefully you'll be fine :)

I'll wave at you from the road end Lis!!

Frak I tried the saline nose drops last night, fair to say R wasn't a fan! Dp spent the next 20 minutes trying to calm her and down and telling her "it's ok, bad mummy has taken the nasty water away!!"

Drs didn't say much (as I expected) it's just a cold and it will pass, allow her to feed as much or little as she wants, as long as she's still taking something!
Of course as soon as we went in, R started grinning inanely at the Dr and babbling away making me look like a completely neurotic fool!

Ha ha mrswajs! I was thinking of you when passing! Glorious day here in the granite city! Mumshouse is as alwAys roasting. So I've spent the last hour opening all the windows trying to get it below 25 degrees! The monitor is going mental because it's over 23. I've just wrestled with the travel cot too so I am the proverbial greasy spot!

I think we have sorted out feed sizes again. Bigger feeds but less often, it's working for this week anyway! We'll worry about next week later!

Evening all.
I didn't crack up in the end. But I did give in and let F have a 90 min nap on me on the sofa this avo.

This evening he's had a mammoth feed. So I know he's not hungry. So we're starting a pick-up-put-down type sleep training. I'm currently stood outside his bedroom door listening to little grunts of displeasure, and the sound of him kicking/hitting the mattress, waiting for it to turn into a shout before I go in.

We've been going 45 mins. He's done a lot of grumpy-crying, but he hasn't gone into meltdown yet. Which is good so far. Just a tummy rub & head kiss seems to be working now (did a LOT of yo-yo style pickups earlier!).

I could be here a while. But then I'd usually be there for 2 hrs+ holding him & letting him suck part of me.

Any idea how long this should take? Nearly over an hour now. I can imagine I'll end up giving in after a few hours.

Wow, it's not so much the crying as the "look how sad I am" faces that get me.

petal just had to have a smile at your post, we are the exact same here - T will sleep like a dream at night but is awake all day unless we go out. On Monday after holding him what felt like all day (He's over a stone now and I swear my arms are longers...) I tried the same. my surestart midwife suggested one of my cardies in the crib and to prop it up on the phone book, leave him whimpering and then if he cries, for 5 minutes, then 7 etc. Whenever I went in he was super pleased to see me, all Hi mum! type big gummy grins and kicking about in delight, then, I just put his dummy in and walked out feeling like the worlds biggest old cow and thinking about his little crest fallen face.

It's awful and I don't really think we got anywhere either becuase he didn't go to sleep...

ha! Thanks for that last bit Sarah!

We're into proper scream territory now.

Think I'll keep going another half hour, then feed him again, and then start all over again I suppose.

I also find that once he's really pi**ed off only feeding will calm him which is also probably wrong wrong wrong but I'm sooo past caring by that point.

I've got into the habit of going out everyday in the car or for a walk to avoid permanant damage to arms/boobs!

Whats funny is that my mum comes over, says to T 'Right my man, you are having a little breakfast, then a little bath and then you're going to sleep' and guess what, he does! When I do that, he says eff off mum, you are holding me for as long as I say so and don't moan about it or I'll stay awake all night too!

Sending calming sleepy vibes to you and your lo x

Win! He's finally fallen asleep. 2hrs 20mins. Although only the last 40 mins or so was really traumatic. A little bit of head stroking finally did the trick.

Is that really called the "no cry" sleep solution?! Only difference to CC or CIO is that he was cuddled while he screamed, which is preferable. I suppose.

It did get to the point where I realised we HAD to see it through. Or we'd have put him through that for nothing.

I'm not expecting him to sleep brilliantly tonight now!

and 40 mins later (like clockwork) he's awake. Though quiet for now. I suppose I'll have to do all that again?

petal IMO developmentally he's still a tad young for that approach. He doesn't have the capacity to put himself to sleep yet so you will be doing this ad nauseam for weeks. Some babies get it but most won't until 6mo+.

DS is doing more reasonably tonight. There's such a difference between a feed at 3 something and a feed at 4 something. Now to hope he goes back down and stays there asleep for a couple of hours.

I hope not, Frak. I'd hate all that to be in vain.

So, it's 4:20am. F went back to sleep himself earlier. I woke an hour ago, checked on him, and he's still happily snoozing. However, I'm awake, with massive boobs, and I'm starving.

This rather defeats the object of him sleeping though!

Well self-resettling is encouraging! And he will get it eventually - it's just the learning process in a younger baby is longer than one of 6+ months who has made the jump of learning how to sleep and will be able to change the habit in a couple of nights.

A lot of parents do a week of sleep re-educating at less than 6 months and write it off as a failure until about the age of 2 when they can't handle it any more. It's a bit like improving someone's accent in Chinese except 2 months later they're going to be constantly speaking German. Something fundamentally changes in the sleep process between 3 and 6 months.

Quick poll. If a glamorous friend from your going out days who pre-baby you were quite close to was getting married and your husband last minute told you he will not be going because he will be going to work..would you brave the registry office and finger buffet with a young baby and toddler on your own in the centre of Edinburgh? I want to go...but am I just going to be an embarrassment of dress accessorised with posset and screamy short people noise? Do I just stop at home?

well now I feel like I've stressed both of us for nothing.

I thought trying to teach him to fall asleep in his bed, instead of on me whilst sucking, might save my sanity. And I wouldn't get so wound up after spending 2 or more hours of getting him to sleep being undone as soon as I try to put him down (thereby having to start it all again).

I've had people banging on at me to "just let him cry, it won't do him any harm" since about 4 weeks old. We didn't want to do that. But now that the usual strategies aren't working, at nearly 16 weeks, I felt like the time was right to try something new.

So if it might not work at all, what do I do? Persist, or give it up as a bad idea?

I wish I'd found out about this 3-6 month thing in all the reading I'd done before we started.

I'd go Arch, surely you can just head home if it gets tense? Plus your friend knew a baby would be involved.

Don't beat yourself up Petal, I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to H's sleep. I really thought I'd be a routine person and he's just not that kind of baby. I often let him sleep in his vibraty chair after the 4am waking as I can't get him back down, he rolled onto his front when I'd put him on his side the other night and I didn't notice til the morning, he won't go down before 10pm ever, I feel like a failure a lot until I realise I'm doing my best and no one gets it right all the time. There's no harm in trying stuff out, every baby is different and there's no harm done xx

Morning all.

Arch / Petal - I agree with Cycle on both counts.

Arch I'd definitely give the wedding a go - you can always escape home early if doesn't go to plan.

Petal I also agree that all babies are different and for the sake of your own sanity, I understand why you've got to give things a go. When we try and put P down at 7.30ish, she never falls asleep after her feed. This means that DH then takes her into her room and tries settles her in the crib when she's drowsy but not asleep. It usually takes about half an hour and often involves quite a lot of crying. He sits by the side of the crib and pats her/sings to her and tries to sush her to sleep. Sometimes this works on its own but other times he does have to get her out and rock her until she's more drowsy. This whole process has got easier and it means that we're getting some grown up time in the evening. Some nights are harder than others though and there have been times when I've thought sod it, just bring her in the living room. DH is more patient than me though, and is happier to sit with her in the bedroom for longer than I could manage. I don't think that there's anyway that she'd just self settle in the crib without a bit of encouragement though. Although it's hard getting there, I really think it's just about trying to find the thing that works for you and F.

Question about expressing - what time of day do you all find best to do it? When I've previously expressed, it's usually been after P's had a big overnight sleep and I've woken up engorged. I think my boobs are a bit more used to her sleeping for longer now, so I haven't woken up as swollen this week (mind you, she's woken in the night for a feed for the last couple of nights). I want to try and express over the weekend though, so that I've got a little stock of milk in the freezer so that I can go out with my friends in the evening DH can get involved with feeding P.

Nonono don't feel bad, petal :( I just wanted to say that as he's still quite little it may not work the way you're expecting it to and if he doesn't get it in a week don't worry, because it's not that you're doing anything wrong it's that he might not be ready. And even if he is you're doing sleep education, not reeducation.

PU/PD is definitely better than CC. You're not leaving him to cry for a set length of time so he's unlikely to be getting stressed by it. You're just allowing him to find the way to sleep naturally and comforting him when he needs it but be prepared for him literally not to know how if he's not quite in the right frame of mind and for him to seem to regress as the way he goes to sleep changes.

What reading have you done? Have you read the guidance by Dr Sears? Good link here on sleep maturity which covers pretty uch what I spent a day and £££ being taught by a sleep psychologist from Oxford Uni.

Arch - I agree with Star & Cycle. Give it a go! I'm sure there'll be lots of willing baby-snugglers to help you out!

Thanks cycle & star, I think we need to try this. We did have a good bedtime routine going, all the usual things, then I'd feed him, he'd fall asleep and I'd put him down. No problem. It's just this last week when he's started springing awake every time I put him down.

In the nicest possible way, I hope Frak's wrong! And I hope we've already had the sleep regression too!

I did freak out a bit there but then 4am does that to a person!

And is anyone else losing hair at a rate of knots? It's continually falling at out at the moment

We're off to H's hip scan in a bit, he gets one automatically because I was born with congenital dysplasia that wasn't diagnosed until I was 17 months because thee was no click because it was so severe. He's probably fine but I'm actually really nervous.

I cried at the thought of it being diagnosed the other night, I had two years of surgery and plaster because mine was so bad, I really don't want that for him.

I agree with Frak that it's a bit soon to expect babies to be responding to CC-type things.
I feed T to sleep at bedtime, sometimes he wakes a little and then we bounce him in his hammock for a couple of minutes until he drops off again.
He will self-settle often during the day - he sits in his chair and chews his comforter or sucks his thumb until he falls asleep. I feed him to sleep during the day as well if I can see he's tired - I've just done it now - because I know that having had a feed he'll now have a decent nap (1 hour+) rather than waking again in 30 mins because he's actually hungry/thirsty.
We never did CC/CIO or anything with DS1, it just isn't for me.

Petal my heart really goes out to you - you're obviously getting a fair bit of pressure from family to get F sleeping. You must do whatever works for you and what feels right. If you think about how your day will be when you go back to work, what would the pattern be? If you can come home, give F his tea, bath and then a lovely snuggle and feed to sleep would that be something you could go along with? As he gets bigger then you could move the feed to before a story so that the association between boob and sleep is one step removed, and then you will be able to leave him to be put to bed by someone else if you are going out/working late or whatever.

Cycle - you are not a failure, it is very much down to the individual baby at this early stage and I think you can either fight it and make life hard for yourself, or go with what their natural behaviour seems to be and gradually steer things as they get a bit older (6 months onwards).

T slept 9pm until 7am last night! That is the earliest he has ever gone down in the evening by about an hour and a half. He had been awake for just over 2 hours before he had his bath at 7.30 and then he conked out while we were getting him dressed again. He slept for half an hour and then woke and wanted a feed. I thought he was going to do his usual of perking up and being wide awake all evening, but he fell asleep and when he'd been sparked out on me for 40 minutes I decided to try him in bed - and there he stayed! Going to aim for the same today in terms of afternoon napping and bath and see what happens.