The CRESH spa and creche: we ALL deserve crap ham

[FannyPriceless]

Enter all ye ESHes. We've been Barren, we've been Pregnant - now at last we are Child-Rearing.

• Come share your questionable tips on raising a real live baybee!
• Compete with Cunty to take control of the bad mummy crown!
• Eat crap ham - after all, you deserve it!

Oh score and I thought I was having a tough time!! I think you need to see a proper lactation consultant. They have been the only ones to help me, MWs and breast feeding councillors couldn't help as they are not so used to unusual circumstances, they just looked at me and went yes, shes on fine and couldnt explain why it hurt so much. I am certainly no expert but it sounds to me like he might not be feeding effectively especially if he is just on the nipple (I know how painful that is!). Could the bad latch be making the vasospasm worse or causing it? I know from my own experience what its like to be in pain from feeding, it's been excruciating and is only just getting better and is still very sore on one side so you have my sympathy. I went to the feeding clinic today and she showed me a tiny adjustment in my position which massively helped with the latch. It made a difference to the pain and Sprout went to sleep straight after and is still asleep now, whereas usually she would need to be comforted/suckled to sleep and be awake again an hour later.

Could you try expressing and finger/bottle feeding just so you can get a break? TYF could feed the MrT while you eat and that might get him used to not being on you all the time.

If you can get TYF to take a day off and take you to see an LC or get one out to you then I am sure it would help? cosmosis might also have better advice.

*score if you think it might be TT then check out these websites and see if any of the symptoms ring a bell.

www.ann-dobson.co.uk/tongue-tie_symptoms.html

We used the form at milk matters and they long distance diagnosed the TT and we decided to get Ann to come up from london rather than wait for the NHS to sort it out.

milkmatters.org.uk/international-service-tongue-tie-talk/

Charlotte at milkmatters was also brilliant and spoke to me on the phone at length to discuss things before we decided to use the service. xx

I second everything Rocket & the others have said Score - BF can be excruciating for the first 6 weeks or so, especially it the latch is wrong. If he's just taking the nipple it's fecking agony.

I'd also add that you need to get out - a month confined to the sofa is enough to drive even the sanest person completely mental. And not moving around can't be good for your recovery. Are you getting any help from your family? Perhaps your Mum can take you out, even if it's only to a local coffee shop.

Have you also considered taking MrT to a cranial osteopath? I'd highly recommend it. The trauma of birthing impacts the babies too and it may help him to feel a bit more comfortable without having to get into strange contortions.

Hang in there though....the early days are bloody tough but, even though it doesn't seem like it now, they're over in a flash.

scorps has he been checked for TT? (I mean properly checked) If he wants to feed all the time it could be he?s not feeding very efficiently, and could also be why he?s not latching on properly. I agree with rocket that a lactation consultant may be a good idea if nct person was no good. Or perhaps a different bfc, try LLL or BFN? We did some stuff about Reynauds on my course, I?ll dig it out tonight as I can?t remember it off the top of my head, but you need to get the latch issue sorted asap.

Some people also swear by cranial osteopathy to settle him that might be worth looking at. A vibrating bouncy chair might help him settle not on you, but also don?t forget, it won?t do him any harm to cry for a couple of minutes while you eat, it really won?t, and you need to look after yourself or you won?t be able to look after him.

Re the pain, are you on all possible pain killers? Have you seen the dr recently? You may be able to take painkillers they think you can?t, the bfn are the people to speak to about what you can actually take when bfing www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/drugs-in-breastmilk.html

Lastly, being horrible to your OH is part and parcel of having a baby. We?ve all done it, every single one of us on here has come on here and either moaned about how shit their oh is at helping, or said how great they are at helping but they still want to smash them over the head with a cricket bat. It isn?t possible to overestimate how hard having a new born is. It is an unrelenting slog. If it wasn?t for hormones and motherlove, we wouldn?t get through it.

On the other half front. TB has been an angel when it comes to looking after us and the house BUT Oh my god, if he twitters with one hand while pushing the pram with the other ONE MORE TIME, i will ram that phone down his fecking throat. It's your sodding precious daughter in there, PAY ABLOODYTTENTION!! (irrational, moi?)

And I would defo second the cranial oestopathy, Sprout has been a few times and its really helped although she may have straightened out a bit naturally as she got older. She had birth compression one side and was very hunched up. She didnt like being put down at first because lying flat must have hurt her and she was quite twisty towards one side. She is much more relaxed now and has straightened out and unscrunched.

Have a look here re Raynauds;

www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipple-blanching.html

? Avoid cold. Apply dry heat to the breast when needed (this relaxes the "cramping" blood vessels). Some mothers benefit from keeping the entire body warm (warm clothing, warm room, wrap up in a blanket, etc.)
? Cover the nipple as soon as possible after baby comes off the breast. Some moms say that it is helpful use a wool breast pad or a soft cloth diaper.
? Apply dry heat immediately after breastfeeding. A rice sock can be useful as a source of dry heat: Fill a sock or a cloth bag with uncooked rice and microwave 45 seconds (or until desired warmth is achieved); hold the rice sock against the nipple (over the cloth or mom's shirt) until blood flow resumes.
? Avoid caffeine, nicotine and other vasoconstrictive drugs, as they can precipitate symptoms.
? Ibuprofen.
? Dietary supplementation with calcium/magnesium.
? Dietary supplementation with vitamin B6.
? Low dose oral nifedipine

Thanks so much everyone, including the interloper

Am doing all the stuff advised for the blanching nipple horror, but it's only stopping me being in unbearable pain when he's not on the nip (still bloody agony even then). Some skin has died now on my left nip - that's fun I have 2 special gel pads that you heat up and wear in your bra which really help when in but my nips re-blanch within seconds of removing them, so no help with the latch pain.

He doesn't have tongue-tie; because I had such a severe TT as a nipper I fixated on it after his birth and insisted a specialist assured me he didn't have one! And you can see he doesn't when he screeches! I think part of the prob is that we have such a small flat that I only have the bed or the sofa to sit on to feed and I'm sure I'm sitting in positions that don't help him latch on well. My folks have just come with food and to take him out in the pram for a while, to give me a break. Except I'm in tears because I don't want him to be away from me Have talked to LLL lady as well as others but no further hope there. I've tried expressing, although he feeds so much that I don't have much milk left to express but he won't take the teat of the bottle. The one time he did he choked on too much milk, even though I was being super-careful. Will have to look up a special lactation consultant, I think.

Have been thinking about cranial osteopathy but nearest place would involve me having to ask my parents for a lift to a place 45 mins away, then waiting round and bringing us back. I know they'd do it but feel guilty. Will have to bite the bullet and ask them. As for getting out and about, there are other health issues preventing me but don't want to discuss them (too depressing).

I think I'm just going to have to suck it up and wait for things to improve. I just feel like screaming and laying on the floor and thrashing about like a lunatic from the stress and pain of it all I rang TYF earlier and begged him in tears to come home and make everything go away. V ashamed of that one.

TYF got cunting bike oil (from his push bike) on the pristine white inner layer of the moses basket. Every fucking surface and fabric in the flat and most of his clothes are ruined by fucking bike oil. Including several babygros now, arrgh. How can a grown man not know how to wash his hands? Oh yeah, wait, I forgot about his skank-mother My Ex used to cycle competitively and never once brought oil into the house, grrrrrrrr (although he was a massive cunt otherwise). I just don't have the energy or time to deal with other people being useless and causing me any extra stress, however small. Rocket, TYF will put the BFing cushion on his lap with Mr T on top of it and then play PS3 games like that. It makes me feel like working the console slowly up his arsehole. Sideways.

On the plus side, he is buying me an iPad2 (got an unexpected work bonus!) to say thanks for laying his baybee and because I might be able to entertain myself one-handed (fnarr fnarr, oo-er, etc.). I can't see it actually helping in that regard but I ain't going to point that out

Oh Scorps, you poor thing. First thing. You MUST NOT feel guilty about asking anyone for help. Go and ask your parents now. You need help. You have people who would help you. Ask for the help. What would your mum say if she read your post? Would she be straight round to whip you both off to anywhere you wanted to go? I think she would from what you've said about her. Ask for help.

You really must must eat. Even if it means TYF cutting your food up for you and you eating it with your fingers. Even if it's gone cold. You must eat regularly.

On bottles, what teats have you got? Both Drom and I have had success with Medela Calma bottles, they might help with the flow issue as the baby has to suck to get the milk so can control it better.

If you can get him to take a bottle then either expressing or mixed feeding could help you out.

And what Cos said. Letting your gorgeous boy cry for a minute is not going to hurt him. Sometimes you have to let them do it so you can look after yourself for 5 minutes. I'm not saying leaving him wailing for 45 mins. But 5 mins while you eat some food will be fine. And if you can't go out, make TYF take him out so you can rest. I know you want to be with him, but it's good for TYF to have time alone with his son. And it's very good for TYF to learn how to soothe him. There may be a lot of screaming while he learns. But I think there is a big difference between leaving a child to scream all by themself, and holding a screaming child while you try and work out ways to soothe him.

If there's anything you need that I could help with, let me know.

What Muse said. Word for word.

How has he got oil everywhere? We have 9 bikes (yes I know!) in the garage and I can?t think of the last time that either of us anything anywhere. he needs a bike maintenance course, you don?t need to use that much!!!

The oil thing would have driven me nuts. How does anyone do that?

And I am frequently Queen Bitch of Bitchonia to poor TBG. Sometimes he deserves it, sometimes he's just bloody there. Don't feel guilty about calling TYF for help. On one particularly bad occasion I told TBG to get the baby away from me. And he did. He took her out for a long walk and when she came back she had a much happier mum as a result.

I could be pedantic here and say that it is likely to be grease or chain lube rather than oil, but I won?t

My classic HI moment was one night out of loads during the forever colic weeks that MB would not sleep in his Moses, which meant that he had to be held. HI said he'd hold him. This translated as basically holding MB whilst he rested* his eyes^! Can you feel me seething?? So instead of me getting some much needed rest as MB didn't nap at all in the day I spent the night watching him hold MB as I was worried he'd fall asleep and drop/squish him. Fucker. When I told jimmy concerns he told me to get over it I was being ridiculous and he was more than capable of looking after his son. I tell thee he was very lucky that I didn't gouge his eyes out with the bedside lamp.

Your emotions are normal with your man. It's a fecking rollercoaster of love and hate once small people arrive on the scene.

Also reco KellyMom info and one of my NCT pals used an independent lactation specialist and said it was £ well spent!!

Good work on the iPad win too!!!

Cossie, i think you just did? ;-)

What muse said with bells on. You need to ask for help as soon as pos. Your parents will love being able to help and the sooner you can get some osteo or to an LC the better. I wish I was nearer so I could help you myself score Big hugs lady.

Oh bum, failed again

Hey Scorpette. That sounds like a total nightmare and you have every right to moan as much as you like/have a good rant. Was going to suggest TT too - Squib had it and I was in tears frequently until it was fixed when he was 12 weeks old. Hmm. Only other thing I also can think to suggest is a nipple shield. I think if they will feed through it, it might also help with acceptance of a bottle, so you could maybe then move on to combined feeding to give yourself a bit of a break?

Just as an aside, and fwiw, I ended up supplementing with bottles after feeds, and initially felt like I was a failure as a mother until it dawned on me that it absolutely doesn't make you a bad mother if you end up having to use formula. Being a good mum is about way more important stuff than BFing...it's about how much you love and protect your child for years beyond that, and bring them up to be a rounded human being. If that's the way you end up going for your own sanity, then don't beat yourself up about it. That said, if you do manage to hang on in there through this, you'll have every right to feel so proud of yourself when you look back and all this grimness is a distant memory.

Again, thanks so much :) My folks come virtually every day and they're doing all the washing for me and Mr T (would do TYF's too but he feels weird about it) and Mum cooks me yummy food, although it's all 'proper meal' food that needs a bit of prep, not snacks. They're v helpful. Am still having daily severe headaches so can't face letting Mr T scream, esp. when I'm eating as it makes me retch with pain. TYF can't feed me stuff in the day when he's at work. Every night, I keep meaning to prepare stuff I can just stuff in my gob the next day and then I'm up having to feed Mr T until 4am (or something equally hideous) without a break except running to the loo whilst he screams blue murder, so I just get too tired. TYF can't cook the special allergy stuff I make very well, otherwise I'd get him to do it for me.

The problem for me, really, is how painful BFing is due to this bastard vasospasm thing, which no-one can give me any help with. My parents were looking after him earlier whilst I took a shower and I was curled up under the water weeping and sobbing 'no, NO!' because I couldn't face feeding him after I came out. And the tiny patch of dead skin on my left nip is making me heave just to think about it Feeding through it genuinely hurts worse than contractions! I really don't want to give up BFing because of the benefits to my baybee and despite all the pain, I love seeing him nuzzled up to me, feeding with a silly milk-drunk face and his tiny hands clasping my nork

BTW, am typing this leant over at a redonkulous and painful angle whilst he's asleep on me!

Cosmo, you are right about it probably not being oil - all I know is that he has managed to get it everywhere since he's been riding to work every day and the bottoms of all his jeans are covered with the cunting stuff, so I have to go out with him looking like a bloody tramp. He finally admitted last night that after years of me telling him if he's going to get black crap all over his trews then he should buy a special cheapo pair just for riding his bike in, that this was probably a good idea The main prob is that he manages to get it all over his hands because has to carry the bike up the internal stairs to the flat. He washes his hands as soon as he gets in but still manages to leave them caked in crud. Last night = screech meltdown: "HOW can a grown man not know to check he's washed all the crap off his hands after washing them? I knew to do that at 2!" (I did; my Mum has OCD). So he's trailing it through the flat on his hems and socks and touching things with manky hands

I had vasospasm for a while Score, and it went away all of a sudden. Would you consider mix feeding for a while just to give yourself a break? You could get some advice on how to do it without compromising breast feeding. Doesn't mean you'd have to mix feed forever.

Just get TYF to make your food. It might not be as good as the food you make yourself, but it's got to be better than nothing. Or ask your mum too. You really need to eat properly. A malnourished body cannot heal itself. What things are you allergic to?

Is there anything else the docs can do for your general health? I think you need to start making a fuss.

And I don't mean to suggest mixed feeding in an unsupportive "oh just give him a bottle" way. I'm thinking of a planned strategy to give you a break, work through your problems, and get back to full breastfeeding if that's what you want. I just feel if you're weeping in the shower at the thought of the next feed then you need a strategy fast before you fall apart completely.

Poor scorps. I've never heard of the term vasospasm before, but it sounds like what I experienced (though not to the same extent) in the early weeks. I would cry out in pain at the start of each feed - and it was a nerve tingling, pins and needly pain, which also hit me when cold air, or the shower etc touched my breasts. It did ease off after several weeks, but it did give me the fear before each action that I knew could cause it.

Have you tried cup feeding at all? it's messy, but it's something else TYF could do to give you a break, or you could do to top up after breastfeed (with BM or FM - whatever suits).

I think the others are right, you need to find the right expert who can get you sorted.

I really wish I could do more to help. Sending lots of love and support.

boo, fanny, Alps and I met today and it was lufferly. I've popped a couple of pics on the FB event page.

Mine started somewhere around 6-8 weeks and went after a few weeks. I think I had it quite mildly. Never hurt during a feed but afterwards my whole nipple would be white and my god the pain. It was hideous. Had my latch checked and tried some extra careful positioning. I think in the end she just got better at latching on, more than anything else.

That is one positive thing Score, babies do tend to get better as they get bigger - at least that's what I've found. Bigger mouths I guess, so he should then be able to get more boob in. Have you looked at the Jack Newman stuff on breastfeeding?

It'd be quicker to list what I'm not allergic to, Muse

I am allergic to dairy though, and if you are, you're really meant to leave off the FFing in case it kicks off a latent milk allergy in your offspring. However, I have been wondering about giving him the odd FF just to give myself a bit of a relax and taking a chance . However, the few times he has accepted express milk from a bottle, he drank it... and then went mental until he had at least an hour of boob regardless, so it didn't give me much of a break. Am sure he is nomming on me for comfort a lot of the time, which I don't resent at all, but it gets a bit much! Cup feeding could be funny and it's how he was fed when he was in neo-natal, so know he can do it.

Have just noticed that TYF has managed to get something like ketchup or pasta sauce on my breast pump! Jesus wept

All Docs/MWs/consultants say they want to wait until the magic 6 wks post-birth before they can be arsed to do anything about my 800000000 ishoos. Have found a local lactation specialist but she's v expensive. Might have to chose her over the iPad2, but fuck it, I think it'd be better value!

Caspy, yep, that sounds like vasospasm. Is fun times, no? BTW, loved the piccies - MORE! MORE!

Youse lot are so luffly and helpful :)

PS Yep, Muse, my nips are like that 24-7 Am going to check out Jack Newman whilst I still have one hand free to type!

You can get Neocate, which is formula for babies with a dairy allergy. Think you can get it on prescription, but not sure if that's right or how you do it.

If he's mostly comfort sucking what about a dummy? You've probably tried that already mind.

I think lactation specialist sounds worth a punt.

I know of two babies whose formula is on prescription due to allergies.