Dec 08 - tears, tantrums, giggles and piddles - and that's just the mums!

[traceface]

Or maybe piddling whilst giggling is just me?
It's so sunny here I feel Spring has sprung - where's that daffodil emoticon gone? Had a friend round this morning for a natter and cake - muchos snot and tears but all good. Think I might go for a little bike ride now to blow the cobwebs away.
And no vag - not a chance!
rubs don't you dare spend all your time tweeting - your first loyalty is here!

Lady an emollient cream (get it prescribed) applied liberally and frequently. Your lovely GP will be up on what steroidal creams can be used for tiny faces, but if you use the emollient as I said you may not need it.

do you know what really drives me mad? If one more 'helpful' person says "try putting her in a sling, it stops the crying straight away" I may have to strangle them. Have had E in the sling for last half hour, she woke up earlier, was fed, changed, winded, so none of those is the problem. Started screaming, checked bum, still clean. put in sling so I can hang some washing out, has been screaming ever since and only stops when I pat her on the bum (so only have one hand to use, may as well not be in the sling) so evidently it's wind. But surely colic is meant to be an evening thing? Have tried block feeding as recommended by BF counsellor (on grounds that her poos are always green and slimy rather than the proper seedy kind), cycle her legs every minute of the day that she's not already rigid with pain, give her colic drops but she vomits them back.

Mom/WG, one thing I've found that does help me at this time is earplugs - I know she's screaming right in my face, but it cuts out the higher frequencies that really make my head hurt. I've also been worried about cortisol - eg she's been crying now for about half an hour, but nothing I do helps her feel better.

Veg yes frankly I'm astonished that they HAVE the resources for that sort of thing! Everyone has told them that the thing should have been over in 2 weeks but it seems social services keep cocking things up - for example they sent a document to them but with the dad's name wrong (not just slightly wrong, like a spelling mistake, but an entirely different name). They have been told that if they make a fuss and don't cooperate, then social services will take legal action (!) so of course they are terrified to do so in case it drags out still longer. She's really worried that they are supposed to have this conference, in which the professionals will vote on whether they should have a "child protection plan" but there is no date for this. Meanwhile their social worker doesn't take any notes or write anything down, so they have no idea how she is going to compile a report.

JJ That used to drive me mad too! Can't offer any useful advice on colic but DD lived her entire first, oo, 6/8 months in a sling and still did plenty of crying. Indeed only a sling when being carried by me at a decent walking pace would satisfy her. If I stopped at a traffic light, she would howl. So just to send sympathy on the annoying advice front...!

JJ just quickly, the cortisol sensitivity thing doesn't happen if you or at least someone very cuddly is present. I found this out when I looked after a very ill 2month old who had to have lots of interventions. It was just as the cortisol research started emerging and the babies mum was really worried ad due to pain from her illness and lots of needles etc the baby obviously spent a lot of time crying. I read up on the research and it seemed if the main carer was present and attending to the baby the cortisol levels were much lower.

Kiwi I'm so mad right now I can't hardly post, I Nestle threw my phone at the wall when I read you last post. Basically they have been put on emergency measures but for far too long, and to be this far in and no case conference or plan yet is unbelievable. I think SS don't want them getting legal representation because they are starting to have a case for mistreatment. Regardless of whether they caused their babies injuries or not (clearly they didn't) they have every right to legal representation. I mean what legal action are they going to take? If they think they should be arrested they would have done so by now. I wander does anyone know if there are advocates available in situations like this, Lady does your DP know? Right I proper mad now, I have to go and breathe.

Look I'm so made I wrote nearly wrote Nestlé, my most hated word.

JJ, was about to say similar to Vag - your DD2 knows you are there and she is cared for, however cheesed off she might feel about wind (or whatever). Windy drops and bicycling legs didn't work for us with DD2, only endless endless patting...Oh dear, I am sorry for you. That constant crying is v wearing. Hope you get some respite soon.

Thanks for the tips re: eczema, ladies. I will take her to the quack.

Kiwi, that does sound shocking. Why is the social worker saying that weird stuff? Yes Vag, I will ask DP tonight if he has any advice.

Oh dear Lady I think your FB account is having a seizure.

Yes, what on earth is going on with it?? I have had a few emails from friend saying they have had messages saying they are stalking my page, it's horrid! I saw the instant message to you, Nerida, and typed another message underneath to say it was rubbish. It started with an invitation to see who was stalking my page from my friend Henry and when I tried to delete it I got into all sorts of bother. Oh dear.

Hello all...

kiwi Your poor friends that is dreadful for them. I do hope someone gets their head from up their arse asap, and sorts it out. Congrats on Clackerdom BTW!

ladyt Both mine have eczema. They have Epiderm emolient and a steroid cream to calm it down when it flares up badly. Usually they only need a couple of applications and then regular use of the molient keeps it at bay.

mom your poo story was very funny...it really will get better. I find now that missing the odd bath her and there is sometimes better than having meltdowns too.

wg Hope the Doc manages to sort you out, any results back yet?

beans is it tonight your out with your parents? With white legs? Have a lovely evening, and am thinking of you and your family. I'm sure his surgery will go well.

Right both DC's trying to throttle each other (in an affectionate way I think) so best sort them out....

Hey Deids so nice to see you, how you been? Running well I see on FB.

Lady sorry about your little attack. It's happened to a few of my friends lately, luckily for me its usually people like you who I know would never in a million years write a status like that.

Yes Vag the running has been going pretty well...bit like you though I don't seem to have lost any weight, although my flab does wobble less

Lady I think the FB virus attacks are quite common.

Kiwi that is horrific for your friends, I know nothing about child protection so can't comment on how they are being treated, but I'd hate to be in that situation and I am so angry on their behalf. How about sending a hamper full of cakes and other treats, so they can go on a comfort eating binge (and not share any with their observers)

Arti did you get a cuddle with waitingbaby? How broody are you?

Enjoy your meal tonight Beans, I'll have my fingers crossed for your Dad tomorrow

My battery is on the brink, back once I'm charging

Back again

LadyT I agree with all those who say get something from the Dr for DD?s eczema, especially if she?s sussed out that her fingernails offer some relief, as then it could get infected. I had to beg the Dr for something for DD and promise it was a short term solution, but it needs zapping and then you can be preventative. I was told that recent research has shown that steroid creams are less harmful if you use them intensively in a very short bursts rather than low doses on a long term basis. To keep it at bay now, I use very mild detergents when washing clothes and bedding, 100% cotton clothes, lots of fresh air on her skin (DD is already out of tights and trousers, as she gets it behind her knees), a muslin bag of oats in her bath and rubbed on her skin and Lush Dream Cream. She has a prescription for oilatum oil for the bath, but we didn?t find it made any difference, but did make the bath all slippy and she often fell over in it.

at Veg typing Nestle in anger!

Hi Deids, well done on the running. If I watch the marathon at the weekend, will it count as exercise?

We had an enjoyable night out for a friend?s 40th at the weekend, and got pleasantly tipsy. We stayed at a friend?s house, but had to get back home for 9am to take responsibility for our daughter. It turned out she slept til ten to 9, so we actually got less of a lie in by farming her out!

I have a bit of a dilemma ? a friend is having her hen do in a few weeks, and I?d held off saying I?d join in as there is some uncertainty about my job and it is a weekend away. As I?m on a 4 week notice period and it is less than 4 weeks to the hen do, I?m confident that we?re not going to be tightening our belts until after then, so told my friend at the weekend that I?ll be joining in. I?ve just contacted her bridesmaid (who has already gone ahead and booked for everyone else, as I would have done) and there is no accommodation left. So I?m going to have to find somewhere nearby, on my own, and for a heftier sum than I otherwise would have paid. Bearing in mind that I only have £50 spending money a month after childcare, commute and a contribution to the joint account (remind me again, why do I work?) ? would you go? I?m torn because I told the bride I?d go and don?t want to have to tell I now can?t go, and basic household economics with the not so fun thought of staying on my own, away from the rest of the party.

JJ what is block feeding? We have loads of green poos and did with madam. Ladyfriend claims it is sign of colic, but everything is about colic for her. Is one person's colic another person's cluster feeding?

wg - see here block feeding it's to try and cure over-supply, ie if the milk is coming out too fast and all they get is the lactose-heavy foremilk. also here I'm sure vag can advise as well!

Zoe: is the hen do fairly close? Cd you drive over and spend say an afternoon with them and then head home? Your budget sounds similar to mine, minus the joint account contribution .

Hello there

Matthew has just taken all of his clothes off. Why do my lot like being naked so much????

Zoe, I probably would not go, esp if you are going to be elsewhere from the rest of the party and for more money. I am a bit off hen weekends anyway, as they seem to involve massive expense and upheaval, which is further complicated when you have children. You are going to the wedding and you are on a budget. If you can't easily join them for part of the day, I would make my excuses and leave, like the news of the world reporter.

Thinking of you today Beans and your wee dad. Remember he is in the best possible hands.

Sorry for not more posts but it's holidays and everyone is demading breakfast!

Have a good day everyone . Back later I hope.

Thanks all. Had dinner with parents last night, which was really nice. But then had an argument at the end of the evening. Dad sided with me and it all got a bit out of hand. Apparently they had a big row after I'd gone. Dad rang me this morning to say thanks for the apology text I'd sent last night. Feeling so guilty as it was neither the time nor the place.

I'd basically asked if I could go down to stay with them for the 2nd May bank hol as DH is away. We're all going to Devon the week after, so will be seeing quite a lot of them! But I don't know about you guys, but I do feel fairly lonely when doing childcare on my own, particularly at weekends when friends tend to be busy with their families - understandably!! Anyway, Mum was having none of it and Dad wanted us to come. All got a bit unpleasant. It doesn't sound that bad and it probably wasn't. But it felt awful and when I left, Dad walked me out to get a cab and I started crying. All a bit over emotional. I think when he went back in Mum let him have it both barrels, as she's been coping with him being rather scared and manic for the last few weeks. Plus it's her who has to cater and help out with the kids etc if we do go home.

I just wish wish wish I could rewind time and just not mention it and not behave like a silly little girl. I am an idiot. Oh bugger bugger. It so wasn't meant to be about that, was meant to be a lovely evening and I screwed it all up. Fuck.

Oh Beans I'm sorry about the fight. Emotions are running high at the moment, you are worried about your dad, your mum is facing a tough time with her husband being sick and probably has to think about the practical problems that will arise from that and not just the emotional. She may well be holding in a lot of what she is feeling and so it doesn't take much to explode right now. She also probably feels life is a bit out of control at the moment and wants to regain control. Maybe she had something planned that week or maybe she just wants to assert some control. Whatever it is I'm sure it wasn't your fault its just a horrible unfair situation you are all faced with. Is anyone going with your mum to the hospital today? Could you give her a call?

I'm at home with a lurgy, and of course DS2 is full of beans. Lots of TV today.

Hello
Beans I'm sure they will understand that you are upset and emotional as you are worried about your Dad. Everyone does and says things they don't mean during stressful times. Can you call your Mum for a chat and maybe see if you can stay but take all the kids stuff and sort them out so she doesn't have to worry? I'm sure they want to have you there but maybe your Mum is finding it all a bit too stressful with worrying about your dad etc.
it will work out. Thinking of you.

Kiwi Massive congrats to you. really odd/sad story about your friend. Are you sure there isn't more info? Doesn't add up.

WG How old is dd2 now? I don't think dd went to bed properly at 7pm until about 8 weeks. HV told me Green poo meant wind too. M/W told me that foremilk hindmilk thing was bollocks? But who knows - I don't believe a word they say anyway. How are you liking the P&T? I couldn't survive without ours.

MoM nice to hear from you. Sorry it's tough. at the poo smearing! I must admit I never found the double bathtime / bedtime thing by myself very stressful? I'm almost convinced I'm not doing something I should be but it's very common for people to describe what you are (well not the poo so often) on here. I do think it's much harder work don't get me wrong - and it does get easier / quicker - just need to find a routine that works for you.
Can other's run me through what they did / do at bedtime so I can compare my routine? I don't give them a bath every night (like if we are out later) but usually they have dinner about 530-6 then up for a bath. I just put ds in first and wash him. Then get dd in wash her quick then get her out - all while ds just plays in bath then get her PJ'd and lay her on bed while I get ds out and PJ'd then they both have milk in front of TV before bed around 7-730

Vag why do you hate the word Nestle? Do you mean Nestle like a bird does or the chocolate?

Zoe I'd probably not go in that situation either.

Had a lovely weekend. Loving this weather. Went on a little cycling pub crawl along the tow path on Sunday. Lovely. Just SO many people about and had to abort last drink plans on the way back as the queue was so long. gets above 15C and about a zillion people strip off and spill out of pubs along the river in this country - chaos!

A trip to B&Q yesterday afternoon also ended up at the pub for dinner - twas our fav one and we were delighted to find they had renno'd the outside and added tables we shall be frequenting it over summer as ds likes to feed the ducks (can't deprive the child of that, what sort of parents would we be )

Well this has taken ages, because strangely Sybs ds just pulled down his trousers in the middle of the lounge room and took them off so I asked him if he wanted to go to the toilet and he marched upstairs, and sat on the potty but refused to take his nappy off I better go back up and investigate.

I am up for meet up yes when will it be? Thurs or Fri? Lady and I had a brief FB chat about possibilites.

Try not to worry, Beans. Everyone is feeling stressed about the surgery and stuff and it's hard to behave in a 'perfect' way when, as Vag says, emotions are running high. Not the same, but when DH was ill and in and out of hospital/having surgery etc I found it hard with what felt like 900 people wanting to visit him. I felt like I was protecting DH and they probably thought I was a control freak but the thing is, in this situation, no one's really in the wrong and it really is a case of taking the rough with the smooth, so don't fret.

ZJ, I think I am with Sybs on the Hen Night thing. Unless she is a really sooper close friend and it sounds not. I have recently become an expert at putting things in the 'Desirable but not Essential' and 'More or less Essential' categories when it comes to money Thanks so much for the eczema tips - really helpful. When you have a DC2 do you think you will carry on working? Two in childcare is crazy money, I was discussing it with a friend at the weekend.

Vag, I hope you feel better soon. Feet up!

Kiwi, I mentioned your friends' situation to DP last night and it's not really his area but he was quite adamant that it sounded like they need proper legal representation as the procedure sounds not quite right and they ought to start by keeping detailed notes so they don't forget anything (particularly the weird things the social worker is saying). I know they are not in London but if they can't find a decent and relevant solicitor locally he could try and find one for them.

DB, you said you were feeling v flat a couple of weeks ago. How are you now? And how is your Nan getting on?

Any advances on meeting up in London on Thursday or Friday? My lunches on both days are set in stone as, on each day, I am seeing a friend I haven't seen for an entire YEAR. However, Thursday is likely to be a quickie so could go to RFH afterwards. Alternatively I could do Friday morning, but that might be a bit of a rush as have to be in Primrose Hill for 1. It's very odd to go back there, having worked there for 13yrs. If I bump into my former employer or either of the two Judas colleagues who insisted that my working part time wasn't on, I am not sure how I will act. I still feel angry about it. I wonder if it would be better to seem serene, or cutting? Hmm.

X-posted with your Rubes. I think Vag meant Nestle as in formula manufacturers (same as choc people) who have in the past had some questionable business models in the developing world (though I am certainly no expert)...

Bed/bath thing - to be honest I tend to bath them singly at different times of the day. It's all a bit random. If I do do them both before bed in the evening, I do DD2 first, alone, then get her out, dry and dress her; then I top up the water for DD1 to go in. It's probably not the most efficient way but I would find having them in the bath together at this age (with DD2 not able to sit up etc) too tricky. DD1 goes to bed at 8 and DD2 has her last feed at 9ish, but she often sleeps between her 6pm and 9pm feeds.

Thanks all. Have spoken to Mum and apologised. We were ok by the end of it. Feel so bad. Anyway, time to move on and offered all back up possible etc. Am going to help with picking him up on Friday, which is good. Hired our old nannyshare nanny to help out with the girls.
Also, these 2 little darlings took it in turn to be up every hour last night, so exhaustion not helping.
Back on later
Xxx

Beans Poor you feeling badly about the argument. Such a stressful time for your family. Hope you're feeling better today.

Kiwi That story about your friend is mad and terrifying.

Zoe Have to say, given the way you've described it I personally wouldn't bother with the hen do. But then I'm selfish and would want to be saving my £50 for things I really want to do!

Veg Hope the lurgy shifts.

Lady and others re: the meet up. I can do Friday morning, if that works. Thursday no good.

Jump Oh my word, I had to laugh at your post about the sling. So so true. Because of course until someone suggested a sling I had been leaving him lying on his back screaming in his cot looking at him blankly wondering when he was going to stop crying?! There is a whole theme on the wider Mnet that feeding constantly and slings are a cure all. Nope, my friends. Just makes him shout louder at that time of day.

Block feeding did really help here, I think. I did it for a few days and then went back to both sides. The other thing I realised it that he screams at the end of a feed when he is done eating but still wants to suck, but the milk keeps letting down and frustrating him. So a dummy has really helped us with that problem. My milk supply is way out of whack this time - don't remember these problems with DS1. I can pump a full feed in about 5 minutes and if DS comes off while feeding it is like a garden hose spraying his face. Very odd and I think distressing for him.

I went out last night (woo hoo!) but DH and the PILs said DS2 was very fractious from 6-8 but did go to sleep at 8, which is the earliest yet.

WG Midnight is brutal! I would be tearing my hair out. We've been getting DS2 settled more like 8:30-10:00 pm time, but the problem with that is that he then thinks it is morning at 5:45 am and is wide awake cooing and smiling (the only time of day he is happy, pretty much). So actually maybe midnight would be preferable. Why do I breed early risers??? Like you, I'm sure I remember DS1 having more of a bedtime by now. I do know that we went to Canada when he was 9 weeks old and he went to bed beautifully at 7 pm and slept through until 2-4 am (of course, then his sleep de-railed around 4 months and never really recovered so maybe I don't want to repeat that pattern!).

Rubes I don't think our problem at bedtime is routine related as I'm doing what you describe in terms of process. It would all work fine in theory, it's just the yelling mini-man that causes the problem! If your DD wasn't a yeller, then I can see how bedtime would be much more smooth. Let's hope mine stops being punchy in the evenings soon!

DH is going to Canada for work for nearly a week in May and I have a deep fear about being on my own with the DSs for that long. We are considering sending DS1 on the plane with DH to spend the week with my parents in Canada. Does that sound insane?? I can't decide if he is old enough for it not to be a big drama, or if my parents will have the week from hell with a jet lagged toddler!