November 09 - Autumnal times are drawing near, soon our babes will be one year!

[MsInterpret]

Hello ladies, hope no one minds me taking the liberty of creating a new thread and approves of the name choice. We've been moving a bit slower than antenatal so though we'd most certainly have some year-olds by the time we finished this one!

It was a lovely day here too Skorpion, we're just back from a walk in the park. Cold though! I'm glad you're feeling better.

my lovely ladies, i am very sorry.

I have not posted to wish our wonderful babies a happy 1st birthday, please forgive me for being so shite. I have in fact been thinking of you all a lot but have not had the strength to come and a) post negative stuff at a happy time b) listen to those babies sleeping through (sorry, but its a bit hard here right now). But they are such lame reasons.

I do miss everyone though, and am thinking lots of party/cake type thoughts for the week(s) already gone and the coming ones.

You are all fab and deserve the best celebrations of the birth of your babies. And remember to have a drink/slice of cake for you as well, you did the hard work this time one year ago.

Love you all. I will be back again soon. Just need to get some sleep xxx

Pav, we are also sleepless here if that makes you feel any better. James must be teething - he fed at least 8 times last night . However, I am not having to get myself to work in the morning like you are, so you have my total sympathy. Take care of yourself and take it easy when you can. Remember, this too shall pass xxx

Pav No sleep here either. Not one night of sleeping through. We have gone from 3 wake ups a night to waking every 2 hours and feeding each time. Feel like we're in new born territory again. C is teething and has a cold. The teething has no let up for about 7 days now. We still have no teeth here . Still co sleeping and have no strength to change that for now. I'm feeling very low due to the lack of sleep. Catch up with everyone later.

Oh Fruit you sound totally fed up! I felt like that this morning too, but after two coffees am feeling slightly more human. DH gets home this evening so I am going to take myself off for a brisk walk and enjoy the lack of appendages! (not sure if that even makes sense but you know what I mean - feel like I always have a small child clinging on to me)

We're definitely in the no-sleep camp. Once he slept five hours (and I thought something awful had happened). I can count on one hand the times he's managed four hours in a stretch. Most nights, he'll sleep for 2-3 hours and wake up for milk. We still cosleep, tried once to go to bed on my own but I find it way easier to be next to him so I don't have to wake up, get up and get him. If all I have to do is roll over it's a bit more manageable, but who am I kidding - I am desperate for at least a half decent night's sleep.

Started the homeopathic pills on Saturday night, but I can't say that they've made any kind of difference yet. The GP said to try it for 7 nights, so 5 more to go. I so wish that it would magically fix things and then you could all get some too!

I am getting really broody but I keep thinking I just need ONE nights sleep before doing this all over again...

fruit holds hands. I know where you are at my lovely, i am there. I long for sleep yet sort of resign myself for this being it. Forever grabbing 2-3 hours and having no life. laugs and brood sorry you are both suffering too, problem with the mantra 'this too shall pass' is that i don't want to feel this way, i don't want to be wishing Roos babyhood away because of this sleep, as I feel I won't get the other wonderful stuff back, and I feel like I am missing it as I am so tired. That probably makes no sense whatsoever.

But I am sending some vibes to all you people with non-sleeping babies. I hope we get some respite soon.

Oh, and do you know what is worse than sleep deprivation? sleep deprivation with a horrendous stomach bug, while looking after two children, when DH is unwell too. It is horrendous and today, i have resolved that it will not be a family of 5 .

Pav It is because you are unwell - that makes things about a million times worse. Nobody should be made to look after children when unwell. It is the worst thing ever!

I had got used to no sleep and thought I was doing really well, then I caught a cold and I was completely knocked out by it - you just need sleep to get better. It really made me feel crap for a couple of weeks.

Now I am back to normal health and I can cope with the lack of sleep again. I'm sure when you are well again things will not look so bleak. I do long to go to bed at night and wake up in the morning though. Wouldn't that just be lovely?

Can't help but notice us four all have boys... (DD was sleeping through by now as well)

Thank you ladies. Sorry, I was on a real downer this morning. I wish I liked coffee on days like these. I decided tonight to try C on some forumula. Didn't like doing it as bedtime we normally snuggle and I would bf him. I just don't have any energy left and my body needs a rest. I feel sad that I may have to give up bf. If he starts taking more formula and sleeps easier then I'm on to a winner. A happy and more energetic mummy is far better for him. He played with the bottle (won't take a beaker with milk)and drunk a little bit. I'm going to see how the evening goes as the last few nights he's woken from 9pm onwards. Pav I hope you have managed some rest today. Lot's of this V&D bug going about. Hope you feel better knowing that some of us are going through the same problem. Laugs maybe boys are more difficult with sleep. I hope you got some time on your own this evening. My DH is away and back in a couple of days. I could do with some 'me' time too. Brood Hope the pills start to work. Keep us posted.

Laugs, I hate (I really do) to destroy your theory about boys being worse sleeper than girls but Paula has never slept through. When she only woke up three times about a month ago, I felt really great but since than we went through cold, teething, being sick and teething (no 12 definitely through and I think no 13 will join in the next couple of days) so she is at the moment waking up every hour. Luckily she goes back fairly quickly but I'm sooo tired. And there is no time to catch up during the day at the moment.
But I can deal with it much better when I know there is a reason (like teething). For some reason I even feel less tired.
Anyway, I need to tidy up after another crazy party (luckily the last one) and then I'll go to bed really early.

alas, as with fruit this down period is just worse due to illness. I have never felt so low and sleep deprived as I have over the last few months. Interesting laugs about them all being boys. I wonder if that has anything to do with it? DD was not a fab sleeper, but by now she was sleeping better than DS does. Or maybe I just find it harder this time around.

DH gets the hump as I 'wont' take advice from our friends. I have said to him that if and when they give me something constructive to try I will listen, but do not find being told 'moving him back into your own bed will be worse for his sleep long term...i know someone who knows someone who knows someone whose child still sleeps with them and they are 6 ' by some-one whose baby has slept through from the day dot and they have never experienced sleep deprivation, could not possibly understand what we are experiencing. Being woken at 6am for a few days in a row due to teething is simply not the same. Sorry, bit of a rant, but DH says 'oh i would talk about this with anyone else, would not dare as you won't take advice'. And the only thing he can come up with is to let him scream it out. I WILL NOT do that.

ursi sorry you are in the non-sleeping camp too .

Pav noooo.... it's just mean of the universe that you should be ill on top of everything else! (I think Laugs is right though, your body needs sleep to heal.) Also with you in the not-going-to-cry-it-out. No WAY. I have not coslept and bfed for 13 months to throw it all out of the window. My stepmother actually told me that I'm hampering his development, babying him by sleeping next to him and bfing on demand, and that it's a lazy way of doing it. I nearly bit her head off...
Just try to get through the next few days (I know the weekend feels like a loooooong way off) then it WILL feel easier again. Not easy, but easier. We're here for you!

Laugs I think I'll order a girl next time! ;)

Fruit Really, you couldn't have said it better. Formula/Boob doesn't really matter as much as you feeling rested and happy. You know the saying "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy"! Hopefully you can manage to get some proper sleep now.

Ursi you're nearly done with the teeth! Only five more to go, right? Keep going Paula! :o

Can I ask a period/cycle question? Mine came back after 3 or 4 months (in January) and have been fairly regular, had a few longish ones at first but the last few have been pretty much my normal 27-28 days. Apart from now... I'm about three weeks late, so I seem to have actually skipped a cycle completely. I am not pregnant. Am I supposed to start freaking out about menopause or what is this?

brood grr DH says that 'you are babying him' er....he is a baby ? . My friend said the other day that he is getting to the age of being able to 'manipulate me' and get what he wants....well yes, and for now, he can have exactly what he wants. Unfortunately, that means in the night. I have read up a bit about seperation anxiety and I really do think this plays a huge part in this, and therefore I cannot, simply cannot abandon him when he might need my comfort the most.

I feel a lot better, thanks to some nice drugs (probably took more than was proportionately required for the level of crapness i feel but i want to feel ok). Good job as DH is in a foul mood (not helped by me laughing when dh jumped from a great height and winded him in the crown jewells) so i made him go to bed as its much easier to deal with the currently non-sleeping Roo on my own (DH let him nap on him at 5:30pm, for one whole hour, screwed his already screwed sleep up even more).

I suspect I shall be up for a while

Really sorry to hear so many are having sleep problems. Ethan has only just got his first tooth so we might have lots of upset to come. Hopefully things will improve... If not is it possible to do 'shifts' with your other half? I know DH & I did that during some difficult periods. He'd cover 9pm-2am or something and I'd do 2am- morning. Meant I could get an early night and he could get a lie in. This was after Ethan had stopped feeding in the night though.

Brood I did two negative tests when I now know I was 5 weeks pregnant. If there's any chance I'd recommend testing.

No news here, still got the first trimester nausea & tiredness and the unsympathetic daddy-to-be. Should be 12wks tmrw so hopefully things will start to improve.

Hope you all have better nights, hugs

Ursi I'm happy to be proven wrong, though sorry you're experiencing it too.

Brood I do sometimes wonder if I'm taking the lazy option by feeding him every time he wakes in the night. I don't try any other way to get him back to sleep, but DH often can just with cuddling/ rocking (I don't ask him to after he goes to bed though). I remember katster saying she doesn't feed in the night any more and I've wondered if I should do that, but I feel like it would just wind him up thinking I was withholding my milk from him. Mind you, if someone else told me I was being lazy I'd want to punch their lights out too!

On taking other people's advice: a man on the bus was just asking what my daughter was called ("James" - he has long curly hair) and then told me that children don't start to think before they are 4 or 5 and there is no point giving them toys before then. WTF?? Er thanks. I smiled politely.

Sorry meant to say DWB - hooray for the second trimester today! Hope you start to feel better soon and the tiredness eases off.

laugs That was how we stopped feeding at night - DH to the rescue! (Though we had had some long stretches that made me think Rosa didn't really need milk through the night.)
DH soothed her and she went back to sleep. Soon she was able to soothe herself back to sleep and since September we've had pretty consistent nights. She does wake up and she does complain a little but she also does go back to sleep again. If she was really crying i.e. when she's been under the weather, we go to her and usually she just wants a little sleepy cuddle and nods off again when we put her down. It was been a gradual process but it helped with bedtime and she naps in her cot now too - previously only in pushchair.

This also coincided wih Rosa going from being in a cot outside our room i.e. adjoining ours to us building a dividing wall so she is in her own room. She plays in there and I think she feels cosy and safe there which helps. Also I think you have to go with your instincts and for me, I felt Rosa was ready to sleep through in her own bed. Sounds like it might be worth a try for you too or at least cutting down all those feeds?

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of CIO and we don't ever leave her if she's sobbing. It's just that a grumble/babble here and there IMVHO is not really awakening and us going to her actually makes it into an awakening and worse!

Hello ladies. By God am I glad to hear that none of you are getting any sleep either But also frustrated for you all as you must be going as mad as me...

Bryn fed all night last night. Literally, all night. He is feeding so much at the moment I am actually engorged at times. And if my mother tells me one more time that a bottle of cows milk would help fill him up, I shall scream. Unless I write "BREASTMILK HAS A MUCH HIGHER CALORIFIC VALUE, AND WHY WOULD I GIVE HIM COWS MILK WHEN HE CAN HAVE MY MILK?!" in big red letters across the cupboards in the kitchen, I doubt she will even listen. Even then I am doubtful.

Pav my mum keeps saying the same thing as your friend, and about how I'm (wait for it, wait for it..) making a rod for my own back by comforting him when he cries. I don't mind leaving him to grumble, but when he is scared / tired / in pain / hungry / needing a cuddle from his mummy, I don't see what is wrong in letting him. I'm glad to hear you're feeling a bit better though - horrah for drugs!!

DWB I can't believe you're doing all this again Hope your sickness eases up soon.

Ursi I can't believe Paula has so many teeth already!

Brood I hope you're feeling better.

So sorry for not keeping up with everyone, its been so crazy here recently! Hope you're all okay.

DWB Hope you start to feel better soon.

So tonight I'm starting to get firm with this 'not sleeping situation'. I've decided to take some small steps to begin with. At 6.30pm he had 2ozs (he didn't want anymore) of formula before bed. This was whilst I was changing his nappy on my bed with the light on. I gave him a big cuddle when the bottle was done with and placed him 'awake' in the cot. He cried when I left the room. I stood on landing for a couple of mins, trying to stop myself from going in and taking him in my arms and laying on my bed cuddling him to sleep(which I already miss doing), but the crying soon stopped and he went to sleep. So far tonight, he has woken once at 8pm and I went in to replace dummy in his mouth and he moaned a little and went back off to sleep. It's now 8.30pm and he's moaned again but gone peaceful. I feel like I'm sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for him to wake up. I can't stand it. I spoke to my HV and she is putting me in touch with a baby sleep clinic, whom offer advice and hold your hand through the tough times. I feel so down today. I really need to resolve this problem. I know my technique won't suit everyone but thought I'd share with those of you who are struggling too. I for one am struggling with this concept. I have been co sleeping from the early hours of each morning and BF on demand for the past year. It's hard for me not to feel any guilt about sleep training him. I could deal with 1-2 wake-ups a night. But the wake ups have been 2 hourly from the time he is put to bed. I can't continue down this slippery slope

Fruit you're going with your instincts and doing exactly the right thing. Sleep deprivation might make you doubt yourself but hang in there! I'd move further than the landing though. Sometimes I'm just on the point of going into Ethan when he turns round, lies down on his front, bum high in the air & falls asleep! How about setting the timer on your phone/oven or something?

raggie I like your trying-not-to-offend emoticon - wish I'd found that last night as I worry my "sorry you guys aren't getting much sleep" might've sounded like gloating... That whole problem with text not relaying feelings rearing it's ugly head. I really do sympathise, it must be torture.

sirb wouldn't be doing all this again if Ethan wasn't the easiest baby ever. Think karma might kick us in the butt in may... :) What's happening with your house?

And for the record, mummies - trust your instincts. Yes everyone offers well-intended advice but they don't know your babies like you do. Sending sleepy vibes to the babies and hugs to the mummies x

Hi all

Another non-sleeper here too. He's been waking up around 3am recently and I've been feeding him (cows milk warmed and in a flask ready) and luckily he will then go back down. I've started to put him back in his cot and he's been fine so am going to carry on with that. It's very hard to know what to do, but I will echo all the comments about sticking with your instincts.
Ioan is ill again (argh!) so am just comforting and feeding when he wakes. Once he's better then I will start to try and stretch the night feed closer to morning.
HV comes on Thursday for his 1 year check, so no doubt will tell me things I'm doing wrong which will make me doubt myself!

Hoping for more sleep for us all xx

MsInterpret i wish DH could 'soothe' the cub, but as soon as he goes into the room, DS screams the place down. He is what we term 'the angry imp', he is so angry it is not me that he gets worked up before DH even picks him up and he refuses to be settled by him. But, funnily enough, not in the mornings when I am at work. He fights a bit then, but not like he does at night time. He screams louder and louder. We have said we will just go with it, DH has been with him for over an hour with him crying and fussing and arching and kicking. Once or twice he has managed to get him to sleep (through sheer exhaustion from screaming i think) but as soon as he puts him down, he bounces back into Angry Imp mode.

Fruit oh that is me! I have had many an evening of being like Right. That Is It. I have had Enough, this Ends NOW. and that night, it is as shit as before. However. One time, I did see some results. The Cub was in with us still, it was just before we put him in his own room. and he was waking every hour, maybe 1.5 hours. It felt literally like I put my head down and he woke. So for 3 nights, I slept in with DD in her attic room away from the noise of him crying and DH looked after him, he picked him up when he cried and got him back to sleep. First night, he woke lots, I woke lots but did not hear him! Second night, he woke less, i woke lots due to DD wanting to sleep with me! Third night, he slept 6 hours, i slept 6 hours, i felt dreadful! and from that night he has slept better than 1.5 hourly for the most part, but just won't settle when he wakes.

Scarlotti - There is quite a calorie difference between BM / FM and cows milk, so maybe that is causing his waking? Have to take Bryn for his one year developmental thingy tomorrow, am slightly that the HV is coming to you for Ioans!

i meant to add to that fruit I think you have to do what feels right for you, if he can settle himself to sleep with you leaving him for just a few minutes that is a good sign? How much is the sleep training, if I may ask? I have vaguely considered it myself but then feel like I will kick myself when they tell me what I should be doing, as I probably knew it all along but did not believe it would work ! Good luck and keep us posted if you need to get that far. You might get somewhere before that though? I hope so, fingers crossed for an easier night tonight.

DWB hope you are feeling good. Don't think you won't have another easy baby! Apart from the sleep thing, Bear cub is an amazingly chilled and happy little boy, really easy. Despite the lack of sleep his temperament is wonderful, and so was DDs. She did not sleep superbly either and was a fantastic baby and a great child, and I remember thinking, nope, can't have two babies who are mostly easy to look after! And I did have/do have. The sleep thing I sort of expected as DD was like it, just not quite so bad!