AUGUST 2010 - welcome to post-natal :o)

[CherryPie3]

I know I'm not around a great deal lately but we don't yet have a PN thread - so here we are.

Love to all xxx

:)

Thanks Neenz - J seems to have taken to a bottle a day fine (for now after a reluctant start) so will try the dummy on the same basis. He just seems to like to fall asleep at 7pm in particular with my nipple in his mouth but is sometimes overtired and screams at it when it then leaks milk into his mouth as he's not looking for food at that point!

DH has just sterilised the dummies but of course J is now sound asleep after a tough night! Ah well they are now sterilised and ready for tomorrow.

Interesting about the DT's refusing the bottle at 3m - did they both do this at the same time?

Yeah the DTs pretty much refused at the same time. It was hit and miss for a week or so, sometimes they'd have it sometimes not, then eventually we just gave up cos we were chucking loads of ebm away and I was BFing them anyway. I was only giving them ebm cos I feared my milk supply was low at the end of the day. It barely helped with their sleep tho in the early days. But by 3mths they were sleeping 11-7 so they didn't really need the ebm anymore (if it ever helped in the first place!).

Hi guys,

Also marking my spot, but just wanted to answer a couple of specific things.

kcoffin I so feel for you. DS1 was exactly like you describe. He screamed day and night whenever he was awake (which was most of the time) - not just crying but full on hysteria. On the downside, I'm afraid we never got to the bottom of what was wrong. People say 'colic', but frankly I think that's just a catch-all term that doesn't really mean much (and isn't terribly helpful, particularly as people tend to say 'oh it's just colic', as if that makes it ok). With DS, he definitely had reflux, and I suspect the mega problems I had with bf'ing also contributed to the screaming, but I don't think that wholly explained the crying. We tried everything (incl cranial osteopathy) but very few things made any difference. The only two things that helped were 1. a dummy (had to persevere to get him to take it) and 2. white noise. (We were given a CD of white noise by a kind friend - it literally had tracks entitled 'hoover', 'washing machine' etc, and we played it when we put him down for a sleep - it really calmed him down). He was also much better when upright, I think because of the reflux - having him in a sling most of the time helped a bit. On the more positive side, I can promise you that it WILL get better. DS1 got a bit better at about 6 weeks (partly because that's when I stopped bf'ing) and then almost totally better at 12 weeks. He was still perhaps more unsettled than normal for a couple more months after that, but basically fine. I know that 12 weeks seems like a LIFETIME away now - certainly that's how I felt when people used to tell me that that's when things were likely to improve - but you WILL get there. Just remember it's not your fault, and it doesn't say anything about what Ruby will be like later - DS1 made a total 'recovery' - or about your skills as a parent. Any, big hugs - it's ghastly.

Dibby I also wanted to say big sympathies to you about the bf'ing. Again, this is just what I went through with DS, though with me it took about 5 weeks to get to the stage that you reached, where you just can't take any more. I just wanted to say that I think you've made exactly the right decision to stop. With DS1 I wished in the end that I'd stopped sooner - my nipples took a full three months to heal after I stopped feeding, and the feeding problems really ruined my early days with DS (though he also had other issues - see above ). It was all I thought about, all the time - the next feed, the pain I would go through etc. I also sobbed like anything when I stopped. FWIW, I doubt there's anything else you could have done - IME once you get to that stage, you can't really get back from it. I went to endless bf counsellors, and nothing made any difference. But anyway, please don't beat yourself up about it - sometimes it just doesn't work out. Felicity will thrive, and you'll both be much happier now you're not stressed and upset at every feed. Now you can get on with the happy bits of being a mummy .

Things are going well here. Seth is an angel so far - which is SO different from DS1 that I can't really get over it. He's only 4 days old, though, so too soon to count my chickens yet . I've decided today to stop the bf'ing - I thought it was going ok, but I'm starting to get exactly the same problems as last time - old scars are reopening, I've started to bleed in earnest, so I'm calling it a day. This time I'm not going to feel bad about it at all - it's not working, and there's no way I'm going to put myself through what I went through last time. My one worry is mastitis, though - like you Dibby, I've been advised to go cold turkey, because it's still so early on, but now I'm a bit anxious... I'm hoping that the fact I'm on antibiotics already will help (they gave me them to guard against any infection from the retained placenta), though I've only got two days' worth left.

Anyway, sorry for the mammoth post. I'd better go to bed - Seth's only fault so far is that he is completely nocturnal, so I'm basically only getting an hour or two of sleep per night at the moment.

It was my birthday yesterday so we all trooped off for a day in London which was fun.

Poppy haw got thrush too - what is it with these august babies ... I don't remember anyone on my other post-natal threads getting it. but can i get her a docs appointment - grghhhh

Thanks for that lovely post Elusive I really appreciate it especially after Felicity got an eye infection at the weekend and all the posts I could find on here suggested "dripping breastmilk into the eye" which made me feel like "bad mummy" again for stopping (sorted out with eyedrops from docs within 24 hours).

I still have mastitis since stopping bf 2.5 weeks ago. Doctor has given me another weeks worth of antibiotics today (3rd lot). You are right though, I'm enjoying Felicity so much more since switching to formula, she's happier, I'm happier and DH is a changed man - watching your wife crying with pain and your newborn daughter crying with hunger/frustration really pushed him to his limits. My mum and dad love looking after her and them being able to feed her makes them having her for a few hours so much easier.

I used to think that women who didn't persevere with breastfeeding were putting their own needs above those of their baby, what an absolute ill informed prat I feel like now, though I do worry that she won't go to Oxford, will suffer from childhood obesity and I'll get osteoperosis and shrink to 4 foot nothing when I'm 75. Ah, another big gulp from the goblet of mother's guilt...

ohhh did you see Sam Cam has had her baby - wonder if she'll be joining us?

Dibby I used to feel exactly the same. Before DS1 I worked in social research and spent quite a lot of time interviewing women about their experiences of bf'ing. Whenever anyone said they 'couldn't' bf, I thought to myself 'that's just an excuse'. After my own experience with DS1, I just cringed inwardly at my prejudices and wished I could go back and apologise to every single one of them .

Oh, and can I join you in the mastitis camp ? Starting the antibiotics this afternoon.

And by the way, I don't know about osteoporosis, but I can tell you that my sister and I both went to Oxford, and I was breastfed and she wasn't .

Thanks Neenz. J not having a bar of the dummy at present. Maybe I'll try a different shaped teat.

Let's talk about sex ladies (to the tune of salt n pepper)..

Please.....

So has anyone yet? And how was it? And for the second timers who haven't yet this time around, how long did you wait last time.

Thing is considering I had zero sex drive during pg I actually want to now. Have done since about 3 days post birth actually but my legs are kind of clamped shut in spasmodic anticipation of pain. I didn't tear but did have labial wall grazing which still stings a bit so I'm guessing not a great idea right now and despite wanting to I'm just plan scared. One of the ladies in my RL ante-natal group has done it (she had her baby 8 weeks ago) and said it was fine but admitted she had over half a bottle of wine first - I can't due to bf.

Changing the subject - DH gave J his first (for DH) bottle last night with mixed success (I will post about that another time as I have questions) and I felt a bit weird seeing "someone else" feeding my baby when I have been the only one to feed up up til now. I know I really need to nip that in the bud but it was odd and I did not like it.

Have to force myself to start looking a nurseries this week. I could cry.

Did Sam Cam give birth in Cornwall then or did they get a helicopter or some such back to London?

Bugger - belated birthday wishes Cazzy.

Aussie I was terrified of having sex again after ds1, especially as dh had seen the head crowning and helped midwife change the bed pad as there was so much blood - couldn't imagine how he could possible see me as a lover after all that! Also I was so swollen last time I was convinced I was disfigured! But finally felt ready after about 4 months. Was fine in the end altho did have a minor freak out at the crucial moment!

This time, I feel ready now - well, apart from the sore boobs!

Aussieng - it feels wrong whilst i am still bleeding plus as yet no contraception due to bp. good luck with the nurseries.

Sex?????!!!!!!! [Picks self up from floor after fit of hystercial laughter.] Can't actually remember when it happened after DS1. Definitely after six week check, but can't remember how long after. TBH it was the exhaustion and stress of a spawn of the devil tricky baby that put us both off last time, as much as anything physical. IIRC, when it did happen it was absolutely fine . Agree with Cazzy that I wouldn't want to do it while I was still bleeding (I've never been a sex during your period kind of gal.)

Actually, two other things while we're on the subject of sex.......

First, is anyone else who's definitely finished their family considering the option of a vasectomy? Between the two DSs I had loads of gynae problems, and I'm not really that keen on going back on the Pill for years, so I'm quite tempted to investigate the vasectomy option. Haven't raised this with DH yet though and not sure what he'd think. Just wondered if anyone else has had this conversation??

Secondly, specifically for Cazzy. Something I forgot to say when we were talking before about bp. When my sister had her post-baby high bp, they put her on a particular contraceptive because of it (not sure which - think it was one of the mini-Pills). Anyway, it made her anxiety a million times worse, but it took her ages to realise that that was the cause. When she finally thought of it, they changed her onto a different Pill, and she was so much better afterwards. Just thought I'd mention it in case you have the same experience.

Ooh, and a question for anyone else bottle-feeding. Are you following the new guidelines and making every feed up from fresh, including adding the milk to hot water? Just wondered, because it seems wildly impractical to me. Seth has no routine at all yet, so in the middle of the night he wakes up and wants a feed then and there. But to go downstairs, boil the kettle, make the feed and cool it down would take ages, and he'd have screamed the place down and woken DS by then. Last time we used to keep cooled boiled water in sterilised bottles in the fridge, then just add the milk and warm in the microwave when we needed it. But now they're saying that it's important to add the milk to hot water so that you kill any bacteria....

Anyway, at the moment we're now making a few feeds in advance and keeping them in the fridge, which I know is 'naughty', and it does worry me because he's still so tiny. And what are you meant to do when you're out? I haven't fed him away from home yet, so haven't had to face the problem.

What's anyone else doing?

dh wants the snip ... it seems so final to me. but having got 2 dds from being crap and thinking I'll never get pregnant from a 1 off and knowing he doesn't want anymore I can kind of see where he is coming from...

thanks for the advice about pills :)

elusive what about just using the ready-made cartons of formula at night? Expensive I know, but it won't be forever. As for out and about, a friend of mine used to carry around hot water in one thermos flask for mixing with the powder and ice cold water in a second thermos for cooling. hth.

Hmm...only just found this thread

elusive could you have a bottle of cooled boiled water and a thermos of boiling water? Then you could chuck the milk in half a bottle of boiling water and top up with cooled water. That's what we did with DD when she was on formula for 3 weeks (quite why I insisted on giving her formula for the 3 weeks between her ditching boob and turning 1 I'll never know )

blueberries how are your breasts? what a question eh!? I'm still really sore on the right despite really working on the latch. It's not as bad when he feeds but it burns right through from nipple to back for a couple of hours once he's finished. I think it might be due to nipple trauma but I'm really not sure. It's so tempting to just feed on the left...

aussie I couldn't have sex for 6 months after DD, I was so traumatised by labour that I seized up and penetration was really painful. This time round I'm begining to want it now but my incision site is still quite bruised so I'm not going to risk it just yet. My right hand can hold the fort til I'm ready

Hi all! Please can I join you?

Tilly is doing really well and is so lovely.

My milk came in today and my boobs are rock hard and VERY painful. Going to try some cabbage leaves on them in a minute as I don't have a breast pump, think I will invest in one tomorrow as this is no fun at all.

Oh and sex a bit soon for me, only gave birth on Monday, but waited about 5 weeks after having DS and had loads of stitches after his birth and all was fine!

Off to find myself a cabbage!

Hey chulita my boobs are a lot better thanks! thought we were taking a backward slide again today but seemed to have nipped it in the bud. think one of my bras is too small in the cup and that seems to aggravate the vasospasms, so ordered some new ones today. not convinced we're 100% clear of thrush yet (am sure I could see it on G's tongue this afternoon) and applying the cream to my nipples is starting to sting (bit of an allergic reaction I think). But at least our latch is much better now.

Interestingly, had a long chat with my breastfeeding councellor friend on sunday and she admitted that she didn't achieve pain-free breastfeeding until her dd2 was 11 weeks old so if even the experts struggle, it's no wonder us mere mortals have trouble! still can't decide whether her admission depresses me totally or gives me reassurance...

anyway, how are your boobs chulita? I've just been feeding from the most comfortable breast whenever one feels a bit tender - seems to give it a wee rest and time to recover a bit. I'll probably end up lopsided, but hey ho.

Is anyone else impatient to get their body back? I put on much more weight than I thought and my stomach is just a wobbly mess I'd consider going out for a run if I didn't think I'd end up with black eyes! (if I had the energy of course, which I don't!!!)

glad your boobs are improving a bit blueberries and chulita. i think we have cleared the thrush now, but i still have a fair bit of pain that i'm taking painkillers for. i need to keep remembering to make sure his mouth is as wide open as possible, and try again if not. the truouble is we havve evenings of manic cluster feeding where i switch him endlessly from boob to boob for 3-4 hours at atime. he's frantically sucking and pulling and kneading at my breasts with his hands, and obviously this gets really sore after a while. we've had 3 evenings of it in a row - am hoping this growth spurt, if that's what it was, might be over now. the last one only lasted 2-3 days.

Bouncing, I am quite depresed about my weight but trying not to be as it is only 2.5wks since he was born! I remember being back in my skinny jeans about 2wks after the DTs but maybe I am remembering wrong. BFing twins certainly sorted out my weight no problem. I was 8.5st when I stopped BFing. I am nearly 11st now. Hopefully it will drop off as time goes by. If I stop eating chocolate it will go quicker! Won't be buying any junk food from the supermarket from next week so won't be tempted.

Sex - I think it was 6wks-ish with the DTs but it was painful and we had to stop. I'd had stitches tho. No stitches this time, but think I will wait 6wks again unless I feel particularly horny (which I don't at the mo!). I think we used lube for a bit to make it more comfortable.

Emster, have you tried him with a dummy? He might be comfort sucking rather than feeding. If he is hungry he will not accept the dummy but if he just wants to suck it will placate him. Daniel has a dummy sometimes if he has had a good feed and is crying for more within 30mins. Sometimes he just needs a good burp instead of more food. I know he has had too much when he starts being sick!

we keep trying a dummy but no luck yet. keep meaning to buy a different type to try.

he never is sick, he can carry on for hours!

chulita never again am I going to type the words, 'little angel' & 'breastfeeding beautifully' in one sentence..I should have n own they'd come back to haunt me. I think as soon as I hit post yesterday, we hit a growth spurt/cluster feeding frenzy which has turned my 'angel' into 'grizzly adams' & left my nipples looking like someone has taken a grater to them.

elusive I was secretly in the bf judgemental camp too (tho wouldn't have vocalised it) but my how times have changed. If anything I now feel slightly resentful towards the smuggery of the bf mafia...

Why is that weehector? The BFing debate is so fraught with emotion it can be really difficult to be 'pro' without coming across as smug and judgemental. My views on BFing have really changed too since joining MN. I now realise that many many women try desperately to BF and it is not cos they cannot be bothered or secretly never wanted to do it in the first place that they fail . I have never experienced any problems with BFing (nor has my mum or my three sisters) except slightly sore nipples when I started BFing the twins. That was sorted after a few days with lansinoh. So it is hard for me to understand why so many women have such massive problems, although I accept that they do and they are legitimate. I think my and and my sisters' ease at BFing has been down my mum normalising it for us, talking about it a lot and explaining how it works. So I wonder if a lot of problems could be solved by better support and education and normalisation of BFing. It's a really really difficult issue and one I really want to look into more closely in the future when I train to be a BFing supporter.

My mum is very pro bfing and my sister's bf'd her 3 with no problems and yet I've had issues with both of mine. I still bf'd DD til she weaned herself and even though this time round my right boob is still horrendous I don't want to give up. I know how to bf, I just can't get Sam to do it properly on one side.
blueberries my right side is still so painful. I think it's down to latch though cos there's no sign of thrush. It's agony when he latches and then it burns for hours afterwards complete with vasospasms. We're off to the osteopath's on Saturday to see if it's something to do with his neck, the left side's fine.
I've got a disgustingly flabby stomach. I went down quite quickly after DD but this time it's horrible. I'm back in my 'fat day' clothes, not my normal ones yet but I'm hanging over the top and bulging out the bottom :( It's just plain gross!