So...why do we hate the Conservatives so much?

[Chulita]

And why do we think Labour has anything left to offer after 13 years?

Just wondering...

I'm the same as Tinasan - scottish and without tax credits as (gratefully) we earn too much. Can't imagine voting in my own interests considering the client group I work with

I think it depends on why you don't vote for a party though, doesn't it?

If I'm honest there's something about all of them that I don't like.

I certainly wouldn't not vote for a party because they gave money to the poor (which seems to be the implication by some), but it is equally madness to suggest that I would vote for a party who is essentially going to keep increasing the amount of tax we pay - everyone has their limit.

My personal view is that the whole tax system is wrong and should be calculated along the same lines as the tax credits system ie per household rather than per individual. If you as a couple earn say £100k between you you are going to pay signifficantly less tax than an individual who earns £100k. And yet if you as a couple earn more than £59k you lose your entitlement to tax credits. So the tax system is actually still balanced in favour of the "rich" as some put it, because "rich" couples are still not being taxed fairly compared to rich individuals.

No one has paid for it all though have we, it is all on credit.

Just read today that none of the PFI figures are included in the national debt stats

if you have enough to live on thats ok isnt it, thats what we all want?

thing is, the tories dont see it like that. They think its ok for lots of people different to them not to have enough to live on. simple.

no they think we should manage our economy so we don't end up like Greece

the other thing is, I would not mind paying more tax under labour because it would mean paying for good services for EVERYONE.

Whats that saying....'you pay peanuts', or 'you get what you pay for'.

and what are people going to live on when the country is bankrupt? Because if labour stay in power that is exactly what is going to happen.

so the ok well off tories think all the poorer or less well off people should take a cut [not them as they make sure they are ok] in order to stop us turning out like greece.

hmmm. I think I may have said why I hate the conservatives sooooooooooooooooo much.

just wondering how you might feel when/if your boss says we want to sack you despite all your hard work and life long commitmnet to serving the public in your public sector job? Oh and sorry but there no more jobs like yours left and there are no other jobs you can do that can sustain your family because we let the minimum wage slide so you will have to sell your house or just loose it altogether cos the tories wont help you out with your mortgage, and then you will have to sign on and then if you dont get another job quick enough we'll take away your benefits too. When they do this to thousands of people at the same time...look out guys...double dip!!

I wonder if these people will be consoling themselves knowing their sacrifice is for the good of the country?

Ching ching!

I do not hate the Tories - they are a party for the rich and better off and do a good job for that strata of society.

I do not hate the Liberals - they are a party for 'nice' middle class people, who don't like to make a big fuss, but like to do their bit for society.

I DO HATE LABOUR - they wWERE a party of and for the ordinary workers and the poor but have now, in pursuit of middle class votes, wholly betrayed them, indeed despise them. (see removal of 10% tax rate, retention of Tory constraints on trade Unions, etc., etc.)

"so the ok well off tories think all the poorer or less well off people should take a cut [not them as they make sure they are ok] in order to stop us turning
out like greece." no. Everyone is going to have to take a cut/increase what they give (depending on where you are in terms of earnings) in order that we don't end up like greece.

Its all very well to say that the rich should pay, but you can only push that one so far. Only 10% of the working population are in the 40% tax bracket, and actually you don't have to be earning that much to pay 40% tax (in fact you can earn 50k, be entitled to tax credits and still be a 40% taxpayer and in the top 10% of earners in the country. But I digress...

The public sector is over staffed. I'm not talking about doctors/teachers, I'm talking about paper pushers, people working in the quangos, and there need to be cutbacks.

You can only take so much - ultimately, something has to give.

and people are naive if they think that labour wouldn't make cuts. cuts are inevitable.

And don't Tories eat babies?

read Hassled s link. thats why i dont and wont vote tory.

and while everyone is being clever and sticking it to Gordon Brown the reality is described in Hassleds link.

tory councils crush those who need help the most, the homeless, the disabled, the elderley, the vulnerable.

the world has endured a recession on a scale of the like no one has seen before and we have come through relatively unscathed, yet people feel the have to "teach" our present government a lesson.

for what? for helping the homeless? for bringing in Tax credits to make it worthwhile for parents to go out to work instead of live on benefit? for bringing in a minimum wage? for helping lone parents and opening childrens centres? yeah what absolute bastards eh.
people are muppets, those who voted tory and are not wealthy, or have disabled children or elderley infirm parents may live to regret it.

thanks wannaBe, you say it so eloquently

it is statistically unlikely that all those who voted Tory are counted as well off too

"The market should decide is the mantra "

Well that sums it up. The market is a ravening beast that swallows those too slow and weak to escape. That is not a model I admire.

couldn't agree more vicar. And Granny fwiw totally agree with you on 10% tax and unions but Labour went in pursuit of the middle classes to be electable and to a large extent it has worked.

Hassled's link is horrible and if that's what tories are planning to do whilst pretending to cut costs then I don't want a part of it. The problem I have is that Labour have been in too long and a change would be a good thing - everyone gets complacent after a while. The trouble is Lib Dems have no hope (although it looked promising for a while) so maybe a hung parliament is the best thing at the moment, make the parties actually work together and compromise on the harsher policies.

"for what? for helping the homeless? for bringing in Tax credits to make it worthwhile for parents to go out to work instead of live on benefit? for bringing in a minimum wage? for helping lone parents and opening childrens centres?"

And just how have the Labour Governement funded all this? Originally on the wealth created by the villified Thatcher, and then by borrowing, bringing the country to the brink of bankruptcy. Yes, these things are all nice to have, if you can afford it? I truly believe that the needy in society should be helped and I would not sanction cruelty in any form, but if you do not allow people to create wealth, just where is the state meant to get it's funding? And please don't say "tax the wealthy bastards". That is not the answer.

that link is pretty grim
I need to do some reading around this council

as said. Change for changes sake is just sillyness.

Earners up to £50k? All these earners are comparitively small time fish compared to their millionaire chums who they want to keep rich so I wouldn't bank on anything.

Just why are they giving tax breaks to such riddiculous wealth otherwise?

Just cannot help thinking that people were mugged last night...hey ho time will tell!