So...why do we hate the Conservatives so much?

[Chulita]

And why do we think Labour has anything left to offer after 13 years?

Just wondering...

At least you know what you're getting with the Tories.

Do you though?Why wont they declare where spending cuts are going to be made and why wont they state their intentions on VAT.

This is the party that raised VAT in order to abolish the dreaded poll tax but omitted to lower it again when the council tax was introduced.

It is because I didnt know what I was getting with the Tories that I refused to vote for them.

Have you been reading the Sun,as it was bought to my attention that was their headline this morning.

Under Constitutinal las Gordon Browwn is still the Prime Minister so how is he squatting at No 10?

Who cares about the 'Constitutinal' rules, get him out! Reading the Sun? yes.

I don't hate the Conservatives necessarily - I'm equally untrusting of tribalists both on the Left and on the Right.

But DW and I had an interesting conversation last night. The Labour government came in when we were in our mid-20s. Under the last Conservative government we didn't really have to do anything grown-up. We owned a house - just - but that was about it. She had just started her job and I was still a postgrad student. We didn't have huge bills to pay, hadn't experienced any major hospital visits or parental illnesses, hadn't had children.

So a lot of the stuff which has come in since 1997 we've sort of taken for granted. Just assume that's The Way Things Are in adult life. Things like seeing a consultant within a certain amount of time, having the Child Trust Fund money, being able to appeal over a school decision.

It will be a bit of a shock if and when these things are taken away.

'Who cares about the 'Constitutinal' rules, get him out! Reading the Sun? yes.'

A lot of non-ignorant people who value stable government and democracy.

And don't use ignorant terms like 'Jock McPlop', which I actually reported because it's offensive and bigoted. Would you refer to an Asian person as 'P*&i Wacki' or similar, based on his/her nationality?

And I don't hate masses of random people.

I disagree with the policies of Conservatism.

I hate the tory mindset because I cannot believe that anyone couold be so astoundingly sefish and obsessed with money. Lets sort out the economy (but only if it benefits the rich) I think they see how well a country is doing by how rich the rich are rather than how poor the poor are.

is this based on any evidence or just a hunch, like most of the other reasons given here?

No Govt? Does that mean we can do whatever we want?

I read this weekend it takes 3 years for a govt to have much of an effect, so I can be magnanimous and let Hameron cock it up be PM for 6 months

I am a Tory. I was born to parents who lived on a council estate. I had a basic secondary modern education. However, through Tory policies I was able to educate myself in a field that was once a closed shop to women. I was subsequently able to own My own business. I do not pay immigrants less than a minimum wage. It is a media hype. I pay a proper living wage to my staff. I do understand that many areas of the country lost their mining and their industry. However if people were to look at their local history they would know that most mines were already under closure from a labour government and British industry was pricing itself out of the global market. I remember strikes, closures, dirty streets and not being able to get to work to earn a wage under a labour government. I do wish people would would look at the truth and the context In which things happen. We live in a strong capitalist society. If we wish to look after our poor and our disabled we need a strong private sector to provide the funds. To keep on bashing business is folly to all our futures. We must understand why things need to be done for the good of the UK and it's future. The last thirteen years of a labour government have left this country arguably in a fat worse and long term mess than any previous government.

'I remember strikes, closures, dirty streets and not being able to get to work to earn a wage under a labour government.'

Yes I remember that too. I think it was 2008

1310-

If we wish to look after our poor and our disabled we need a strong private sector to provide the funds. To keep on bashing business is folly to all our futures. We must understand why things need to be done for the good of the UK and it's future.

I'll be charitable and assume that you genuinely believe these things, and you genuinely care for the poor, disabled, and unemployed.

The Tory-led coalition government has not shown any such compassion. Quite the contrary, they've acted like psychopaths in government. Their policies manifestly do not help any of the above groups.

They enact a bedroom tax when there aren't enough houses which to downsize in to, and in any case when the so-called 'extra' bedrooms are actually necessary* for many disabled people in order for them to live in basic dignity.

They enact workfare schemes which force the unemployed in to unpaid work. The DWP's own research has shown that workfare does not help people find work. Furthermore, it makes unemployment worse because companies are reluctant to hire when they can get free labour. It also has the effect of depressing wages generally. How does any* of this 'make work pay'?

• They've enacted massive cuts to legal aid, which the Bar association has said would impede many people's access to legal justice.

• They've instituted a £9000 tuition fee for University students, saddling them with a lifetime of debt - also when they one of the coalition partners made a promise not to raise fees. It is now selling the student loans to private companies.

• They've raised VAT to 20%, which hits the poor and middle-classes the most. VAT is a regressive tax.

• There has been a huge rise in the use of food banks and homelessness under the Coalition. The Red Cross is now collecting food for people in the UK for the first time since WWII.

• Wages have flatlined under the Coalition, whilst the cost of living has skyrocketed. In fact, the Coalition has even attacked public sector pay and working conditions, further eroding people's standard of living and job security.

These are just a few things off the top of my head. I really, honestly, cannot see how you can be fooled in to thinking they are doing what they think is best for the country as a whole, as opposed to the City of London, their campaign donners, and rich mates.

Public and private debt reach record levels under ConDem Coalition

Household debt in the UK has reached a record £1.43 trillion, according to the BBC. What a marvellous achievement for Gideon George Osborne to put next to his already-record public net debt of £1.212 trillion (excluding interventions) or £2.184 trillion (including them).

If you’re surprised at that, don’t be – he needs to pretend that there isn’t any money so he can cut any services that are still left in the public domain after the fire sale of the last few years.

The Tory plan was always to increase private debt. Of course it was – if you cut public spending for people on the breadline, then they go into debt. Why do you think Wonga.com’s owner Dawn Capital is such a prolific contributor to Tory Party funds, with £537,000 in known donations this time last year?

The rich are shielded from debt problems in the same way they are shielded from taxation, thanks to the way our tax laws have been rewritten in their favour – all their money is safely tucked away in tax havens and can’t be touched.

On average, each adult in the UK owes £28,489. Some owe much more than that, though. Yr obdt srvt doesn’t owe a bean to anyone, despite being very poor, so that’s already £28,489 to be spread among everyone else. Mrs Mike isn’t in debt either.

The BBC report cautiously suggests that the record debt level “might increase concerns that the UK’s economic recovery [you know, the one they keep talking about on the news and in Parliament as if it actually exists] is based on increased borrowing, rather than growth sustained by rising incomes” – which of course is correct.

According to The Money Charity, total net lending by UK banks and building societies rose by £1.9 billion in September 2013 – that’s just in one month.

Over the four quarters to Q2 2013, they wrote off £3.67 billion of loans to individuals. In Q2 2013, the daily write-off was £7.61 million.

Based on the latest available data, every day in the UK 285 people are declared insolvent or bankrupt – that’s one every five minutes; 84 properties are repossessed; 1,447 people lost their jobs and eight people became unemployed for more than 12 months; 141 mortgage possession claims are issued and 113 mortgage possession orders are made; and 431 landlord possession claims are issued and 319 landlord possession orders are made.

The benefit system helps nobody. It has been redesigned specifically to push people further into debt – the cap on benefit rate increases to one per cent per year means people are two per cent worse-off for every year it continues, while inflation remains at current levels.

It is in this atmosphere that words written in this blog more than a year ago come back to haunt us all: “What do people do for money when the State fails them and they can’t get work? They fall into the debt trap.

“High-interest, doorstep lending to poor people is Britain’s latest – perhaps only – boom industry. In other words, the government’s sick benefits regime is forcing the poor into debt to organisations that will take away everything they have left, in order to make up payments on a loan whose interest rate they probably made up on the spot.

“And when they’ve taken everything, what do you do then?

“Do you really want your kids to starve?”

mikesivier.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/public-and-private-debt-reach-record-levels-under-condem-coalition/

Or, in other words:

"We have a government that has:
Plunged 600k children into poverty,
Forced pensioners to choose between eating or heating,
Is in the process of banning peaceful protest,
Uses it's militarised police force to crush dissent,
Calls a war on welfare for benefit fraud that costs £1.2bn a year while ignoring tax evasion that costs £120bn a year,
Taxes poor people's bedrooms but not billionaire's mansions,
Sold the NHS, Schools, and justice system, and
Whips up fear of immigrants while making political deportations.
This isn't a government. It is a cabal. A bunch of robber barons, asset stripping the country."

• Scriptonite Daily

www.scriptonitedaily.com/

Which government are you talking about?
Do you mean the Labour government?

That doesn't mean anything.

I've always sat firmly in the lib dem camp until the coalition. I think David Cameron has had so much to do since he became pm it's not all going to be bright and rosy after just 4 years. At moment, I can't see anyone other than David Cameron running the country. Labour have an absolute clown as leader and I really can't see Ed Milliband running the country.
In the grand scheme of things the UK isn't doing that bad under the Tories. Look at most of the EU with enforced austerity measures and governments taking 50% of people's savings. And the US having to close all state run services because of the debt problem. Imagine if that happened here? The NHS being out of action for several days because its state run.

Suppressed report: welfare reform link to homelessness and food bank use

A Tory council has withdrawn its own official report linking welfare cuts to a range of social problems from food poverty to violent crime.

www.theguardian.com/society/patrick-butler-cuts-blog/2013/dec/04/suppressed-tory-report-welfare-reform-link-to-foodbanks-homelessness

------

Now you see it now you don't. No sooner had Kent Online reported the details of an official Kent county council report linking welfare reform to rises in homelessness, food bank use and violent crime, than the report was suppressed.

Council leader Paul Carter, whose name was apparently on the report even though he hadn't read it, told Kent Messenger Group political editor Paul Francis that he had he decided to take it down from the council website because he did not agree with its conclusions.

So what was it about the report's findings that Carter found so disagreeable?

Carter doesn't say. The report is clear, however, that welfare changes - bedroom tax, benefit cap, disability benefit reform, council tax benefit cuts - have helped detonate a small explosion of social misery in the county. We may hazard a guess that this insight is the cause of acute political embarrassment to one of the most senior Tory figures in local government.

Carla-

The PM doesn't run the country, we don't have a presidential style system in the UK. In any case, the Cabinet are completely filled with clueless and out of touch millionaires who - quite literally - don't know the price of a loaf of bread and have absolutely no idea how ordinary people live or the struggles they face.

Saying the UK is 'doing quite well' is a debatable point, seeing as there has been a huge rise in both homelessness and the use of foodbanks, which the Medical Research Council has deemed a 'Public Health Emergency':

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/food-poverty-in-uk-has-reached-level-of-public-health-emergency-warn-experts-8981051.html

The poor and middle-classes are absolutely being shattered by the Coalition, whilst there are tax cuts for the highest income bracket and for corporation tax. The Banking system still hasn't been brought under control, bankers bonuses are still skyrocketing, and we're looking at another housing bubble.

Wages have stagnated for several years now, whilst the cost of living has sky-rocketed. Wealth inequality hasn't been this great since WWI.

By all means, don't vote for Labour. They're also another right-wing party who, since New Labour, have become yet another neo-liberal party.

But don't misrepresent the Tories anything than a complete and total disaster and violent assault on the vast majority of working people in England.

'By all means, don't vote for Labour.'

If the Coalition is that bad and if we should not vote Labour, then who are you suggesting we vote for? UKIP?

Not unless you're stupid and racist, no.

Vote Green or Left Unity, vote with your conscience, or don't vote at all.

Just please don't vote for a party which will continue to systematically destroy social security, workers rights, and all the fundamental rights and freedoms which society has had to fight for an win throughout centuries.