Why is MN pro-labour?

[CanNeverDecide]

I'm relatively new here, only posted a couple of times.

Not hard to notice it's all a bit hard core left on here...

Why is that? Genuinely curious to know why this particular cohort of people that have come together are pretty much all left wing.

ooojimaflip, you are a lefty who thinks people shouldn't love their countries. That is what the left tries to teach people. But have you noticed that even the shameless Labour party politicial broadcast recently says "we love our country" in an effort to fool us. Loving your country is natural. If you ever go to live abroad, you will be very surprised by your feelings and you will discover just how much you really do love your country, and you will find out that the left were wrong, and that loving your country is natural and healthy.

'Loving' abstract concepts is not natural.

Claig - does Scotland count as 'abroad' for the purposes of your argument? I lived there for 4 years. Did it make me feel more English? Possibly, though I took more pleasure in the rare days when the weather was better in Glasgow then London .

I'm not especially lefty tbh I just don't like inventing outgroups.

don't you love beauty and goodness amd mercy?
Plato's theory of forms shows the importance of abstract concepts. Much love is in fact a love of the abstract made real in the form of matter.

yes Scotland is abroad in my opinion. I am sure it did make you feel more English. The Scots are rightly very proud and nationalistic and love teaching the Sassenachs a lesson in sport etc., and the fact that you are not a Scot must have made you realise that you were English, and this would increase your love for England, because it would link you back to your roots

Claig - Plato was pretty much full of shit. Are you saying you love the Platonic ideal of a country rather than an actual country?

Interesting responses, perhaps i should spend more time on here looking around then before casting aspersions.

Just one thing, though. Why do so many begrudge the wealthy, e.g. DC? I mean, even if he hasn't worked hard for the money he has (I don't know his background so am not sure), at some point someone in his family line has worked hard to amass wealth, even if it might have been years ago. What I'm trying to say is that money has to come from someone somewhere having worked hard at some point. If that were you, you would also want to pass that onto your children etc., yet people who are born into priveliged backgrounds are really begrudged. It's not their fault, is it?!

the Platonic ideal of love for a country is innate, it is the same as the innate love for your parents and your parents love for you. They are all forms of the abstract. That is why people all over the world will love their particular country and their particular parents and children. All of these things are natural. They are in fact examples of Plato's forms. We even describe the love of our countries in terms of our parents. We call countries our motherland or fatherland, and the word patriotism comes the Latin word pater, which in turn comes from the Greek for father.

CanNeverDecide - ah there's the rub. Inherited wealth. I think the issue is that though someone may have worked hard for it at some point, the current recipient may well have. just because we would all like to pass down wealth to our children doesn't necesserily mean it is the right thing to do. The problems with it are things such as the creation of elites, as we see with the reduction in social mobility nad the increasing difficulty of accessing the professions without financial support.

I don't but the 'hard work' line though. How hard you work bares no relation to how much money you have.

ooojimaflip, I am sorry that you think that Plato was full of shit. He was one of the greatest thinkers that the human race has ever produced. He was a rare genius and it is well worth trying to understand some of the things he taught.

If we are going to take our lead from some bloke out east who died about 2000 years ago then I might as well just become a bloody Christian.

I don't call countries motherland or fatherland - these are terms that despots use to manipulate the sentimentality of their populations.

Ooojimaflip - 'Liberal educated women - who tend to the left, and wealthy women who tend to the right.' Um, so aren't wealthy women educated? Aren't liberal educated women wealthy?

scaryteacher - "Obvously, these overlap but I can't do a Venn Diagram on here. "

ooojimaflip, it sounds like the left has done its job with you. They have got you thinking the way they want you to

Claig - Can you provide some more evidence that Communism was a tool of global capital? I really liked that theory.

scaryteacher you got there before me I see on the educated/wealthy point!

I am astounded at some of the assumptions being made about Conserevative voters on here, and actually quite dismayed.

pp - I am neither stupid, selfish or naive thank you very much.

I could do ooojimaflip, but it would be wasted on you, it is way above your head. The left has got you penned into your little box, you're unable to see beyond its boundaries. Cut your chains, free your mind, open your eyes.

Go on Claig - spoil me. Lead me to the truth.

Alibabaandthe40nappies - I made the point in the original post that the two groups overlap. Or are there no wealthy, illiberal, uneducated people?

Not on MN obviously Oojimaflip.

TBH Probably I need to seperate out Liberal and Educated and have three circles on the diagram.
I just need some kind of online Venn Diagram tool I can link to now...

expat, you are always so poetic when talking about your children.

scaryteacher - they would be too busy oppressing the proletariat to post here.

because the oppressing would take them so much longer than it would the educated ones. All about efficiency innit.

ooojimaflip, you think Plato is "pretty much full of shit", you think nobody should love their country. You're too far gone, the education system has let you down, they've put the wrong ideas in your head and got you believing them uncritically. It would take too long for me to show you the truth. Start by reading Plato and the other great thinkers, throw away the books they taught you with at college, the ones that deliberately told you that Plato "was pretty much full of shit".