I can't tell you how much I hope the Conservatives win the election.

[AntoinetteOuradi]

Just had to get that off my chest.

Please come and join me if you feel the same, and then I can stop annoying myself (and others) by hijacking the anti-Tory threads.

I was responding to a childish post about pom poms - touche

Mint Humbug - I disagree that the schools are terrible, that the NHS is terrible, that violent crime has gone up, the war was a unilateral agreement, hospitals closing are rare in the sense you mean because they have generally been replaced by brand spanking new ones. The picture you paint is rubbish. The economy simply is not as screwed as most of the European countries and YES it would have been worse under the Tories - Cameron and Osbourne showed their terrible judgement.

o minthumbug, i think the tories are going to win and i think the poorest people in the country wil be the losers. i have enough money, i can pay for bupa or for private school for all of my children if the tories win and undo all the good work labour has done - decent homes, building schools for the future etc - i can afford to survive a Tory government. I will even benefit from the fucked up marriage tax break. I will be ok. It is the poorest most vulnerable people who will not and i think what a bloody shameful small minded self centred little country we are if we deliver such a selfish right wing party into governemtn on thursday.

i Dont know why you think we are in the worst possile position in more than a generation! I ust don't understand what you are experiencing that I am not - the school situation is not awful, hospitals are clean and good and wiating times are short ,the tories supported the war, and the economy is part of a global problem, the tories advocated deregulation of the banks and labour did not rectify that, crime is down and so is violent crime - profesor of criminology on radio 4 last week, maybe thurs of fri morn if you want to google it - asked 'when the tories say crime is up - is that true?' Answer - 'No'. 'What about violent crime?' - 'Falling, all of the statistics, police and british crime survey, indicate violent crime is falling' 'WEll then wh yare the tories saying otherwise - are they lying?' PRofessor - 'Yes'
I don't know about hospitals closing - I live in London - everywhere I look the hospitals are being rebuilt and improved and are now so much nicer than they ever were when i was a child. I do't know where you live or what your situation is, but if you are voting tory to improve public services....well, their PR magic has worked on you.

'Maybe in the long term the Conservatives will be able to get the country back to the state it was in when Labour inherited it in 1997'.

OMG, are you kidding????? One huge step backwards.

you know, where I live at the moment is a solid Tory area. I've been very taken aback at just how solid. It's also one of the poorest areas I've lived in (mostly farmers and small businesspeople of various sorts) and doesn't get an awful lot in public services.
No-one here is rich (except for one man who has a really well-paid council exec type job - no idea how he's voting) so they must according to Rocknstroll be really really stupid.

Meanwhile my friends who mostly live in expensive suburbs of cities where they have fabulous state schools and hospitals are all voting Labour and Lib Dem. They are also not stupid but they get a lot out of local services so it's not surprising their self-interest conveniently aligns with their conscience. I honestly don't think they have a clue about why people vote Tory.

Nice post, MintHumbug (your 10.20 one). You put it very well. Re. your later post - I think Seth is sticking up for me!

Expat: rocknstroll saying 'you are stupid' is not the same as you pointing out someone's ignorance. The former is rude; the latter is open to debate.

I too would be better off under the tories. I just can't guarantee my children would be in the future.

Will also add (as people keep telling me that I'm exercised about my fortune being eaten up by IHT) that I am not weathy. I repeat: DH and I earn around 40K per year. We are not poor by any stretch of the imagination, but we are hardly sitting here counting our millions, especially given that most of it goes on school fees. In fact, if Crosswordgeek is right, I qualify for these blardy tax credits that Labourites are worried about losing. Well, that's news to me. I think I'll switch to Labour.

o whatever, labour voters have bad manners - at least i don't vote bloody tory!

sethstark - thanks for recognising that we have fabulous state schools and hospitals. Glad you are able to recognise the acheivements of this labout government.

farmers and small business people are not the poorest people in society - they are people on benefits and in minimum wage jobs. they will really really suffer under the tories, like they did last time.

THey did create it. Labour inherited 18 years of Tory privatisation and disinvestment in public services.

It is pretty much meaningless to look at things like tax credits and say "I would be better off under the Tories/Labour".

What is going to make all of us better or worse off is what happens to the economy after the election, and the Tories bizarrely don't seem to have acknowledged/understood at all the dangers of cutting too much too soon.

You might think your own job is safe. But you'll be paying for those that aren't somewhere down the line.

antoinetteOuradi You say you and DH earn around 40K per year, what about the people like us who earn 17K per year? How are we supposed to cope with tax credits being scrapped if the tories get in? Also my dd has a mental health illness which is stopping her from being able to look after her ds at the moment. I'm looking after him along with my 2 young dcs. What chance does my dd have in getting the help she needs if the tories stop the mental health care that she needs.

One thing will happen for sure if the tories get in, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer! No doubt!

I'm in Scotland and will be voting SNP.

agreed kaylas mum, rich will get richer and poor poorer - what is so depressing is it seems some poor people don't realise this and are voting tory out of some really ill informed notion that that ridiculous blue book - the volunteers call to arms - will save us! it would be hilarious were it not so tragic.

Kaylasmum, I'm only saying what we earn in order to scotch the myth that I'm a millionaire who objects to IHT.

I'm interested to know where the Tories have said they will scrap mental health care (not a challenge, genuinely curious).

Over the past 13 years, the rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer. Can nobody else see this???

What have the Tories said to suggest that they are going to change that AntoinetteOuradi?

(Did you read the link I posted earlier by the way? Would be interested to hear your comments.)

Zephirine, I'm sorry - I didn't read the link. I'm struggling to keep up with the DCs and the comments. I'll try to do so later.

Seth, if you find any, let me know.

At the risk of being labelled rude with the rest of the Lefties, it's getting awfully hard around here to find a Tory who is actually willing to engage in any kind of discussion about policy. Wonder why.

'really well funded schools with maximum class sizes,'; you evidently don't live in the SW then!

'farmers and small business people are not the poorest people in society' When I was teaching in Cornwall, some of the farmers kids qualified for free school meals; and the families were on the bones of their arse trying to keep things going. Labour do NOT understand rural Britain and have done nothing for it. Less money is given to schools in Devon and Cornwall than in other Labour held parts of the country; please explain how that is fair? Rural poverty is not a myth, it is a stark and unpleasant reality. Why are the urban poor in the Labour heartlands so much more deserving of school funding than the rural poor in the SW? That's one of the reasons I won't vote for them.

Zeph - they are too busy getting ready to join the army of unpaid volunteers who are going to run things come friday. scaryteacher is going to set up a school for rural farmers children on free school meals, and everything will be so much better then.

No, I don't live in the SW, nor would I want to with a bunch of torieS!
didn't know there was diff levels of funding depending on where you live - is that just because of inner london weighting - extra salary for teachers in london reflecting higher cost of living etc or is it something else? I don't think the urban poor are any more deserving than the rural poor, but I do think poor people wherever they are from are going to really struggle under the Tories. Unless of course, these fab volunteers come good. ready?!

Just to clarify what I said earlier (re: education) - at no point did I say I attended a "top" university - although had I been able to drag myself away from the fucking pub long enough to actually revise for my exams, Oxbridge would've been a shoe-in for a pauper like me!

There are many reasons to vote Tory on thursday, NOT least because they are the only party promising to solidly review/revise the family law system for one!

There are countless children across the UK caught up in the separation/divorce of their parents....YET immediately upon separation, such children are quite literally ripped away from one of their parents!!! The 'state', family law, courts, juidiciary, social workers and the like, all invariably decide such children SHOULD NOT have any proper continuance of their family life with both parents. Such children are apparently NOT entitled to continue to share their lives, NOR to be cared for by both parents in anything like an equal basis.

ALL children have two parents and every children deserves to be afforded the input, care, interaction with, contact and residence with both parents. In separation/divorce, it is the parents who are terminating their inter-parent relationship, NOT the parents who are terminating their individual relationships with their children/offspring, SO WHY does the UK continue to allow/tolerate the latter premise, to continue and more often than not 'blight' the lives of all such children, AND for many years thereafter, OFTEN for the whole of their childhoods???

Of all the political parties touting for our votes this week, there is only one such party, namely the TORIES, who are making positive statements about resolving/reforming the abhorrent family law system, to remedy/'blow away' the nonsence that has been allowed to harm all chidlren of separating/divorcing parents, and for so long (20 year plus). This is of crtitical importance to ever parent in the UK, read about their plans here:

romsey.conservativesintouch.com/news/216/

Now, at some 48 hrs to go before polling, Nick Clegg himslef has finally chirped up to see he also supports a comprehensive review of the family law system in the next Parliament. See his letter statement here:

www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=24885&post=325738&uid=404775273803#!/photo.php?pid= 5340437&id=404775273803

So, of the 3 main parties, it is only the incumbent Labour who is steadfastedly against sorting out the family law system, which so badly blights the lives of so many children through the UK !

The SW is mostly Lib Dem, especially in Cornwall, please be accurate. Yes there is different funding; nothing to do with London (there is actually life outside the capital you know?) - kids in not so good areas in Manchester for instance get more funding per head for their schooling than do the kids in Cornwall - which incidentally qualifies for EU Objective 1 funding due to the low income levels there; Plymouth has one of the poorest wards in Europe - but the schools there are underfunded too.

The rural community has really struggled under Labour, so hopefully we will at least have a government that understands rural issues and is willing to address them.

Incidentally, the poor will be stuffed for food under Labour as if more farmers go under, even more food will have to be imported and costs will rise again.

Er - I was a family solicitor until 2 years ago and am still very much involved in that scene - what you have written above is complete and utter nonsense. The starting point in a divorce case is the welfare of the children and the presumption - even in cases of extreme undermining of one parent by the other - is that the children should maintain good regular contact with both parents. It is only when it is thought not in the best interests of the children that they are prevented from seeing a parent, or that their contact with one parent is limited - such as domestic violence or child abuse, and even then, attempts are made to allow supervised contact. Also children involved in contentious family proceedings have not only a solicitor representing their interests, but they have a guardian representing their interests, and a CAFCASS officer who will do a report on the entire family and make recommendations.

ooo touchy scary teacher! sorry for offending you with the mere mention of london, it was just that was the only reason for disparity in funding per child in education that i had ever heard of! and thank you for telling me to please be accurate. please be less of a wanker. so kids in poor areas get more funding for their schooling, but you feel the kids in some areas of the SW should be included in this extra funding as they are poor too? Well then i completely and utterly agree with you.
But i hate to break it to you sweetheart - the Tories £6bn promised cuts to the public sector budget ain't going to deliver SW poor kids any more funding, they are just going to take it away from the ones who have already got it!
ps - if you are parent of young children on income support, milk and fruit are free. so i think they'll be ok.