Depressed lefties sign in here...

[WilfSell]

...on the grounds that if we assume there will be a Tory govt, then the crowing triumphalism of all the Chinless Wonders and Thrusting Monetarists and Nasty Racists who'll poke in here to crow and gloat, will somehow force a cosmic rift in the time-space continuum. And it will be like 1992 all over again but the other way round.

I fear the best we can hope for is a hung parliament.

I've suggested hemlock for the Election Night supper thread...

I've not seen that much stuff but everyone wants to stand in my area! There are three independents in the parliamentary election, one of whom was a Labour councillor until recently, and one was a Labour Party member. The Conservative party's local campaign manager was also an LP member, though I think his position suggests they're not taking our area that seriously - far more point to campaigning to the north and west of us.

Oh TiggyR - I think it's right to be cross if people make broad generalizations about anything, it's never right and life much more subtle and interesting anyway. Everybody knows that - but she was having a bash in a political way, and in the spirit of the times. It is broadly known as a joke, I think.

labour generalizations: pigeon-owning, state subsidized union flunky engaged in class war and PC crayzeeee

lib dem generalizations: lentil-eating, bearded, sandalled nobody with not a thought in their vegetarian head

There. In the interests of partiality, I'll spell them out

The reason I am so depressed is that all of the parties will make cuts of tens of billions of pounds in vital public services, hundreds of thousands of job cuts and will implement harsh pay curbs. The talk of "brutal choices" alludes to this but none of them can come out and say it without losing votes.

I was abroad when Thatcher resigned so I rather missed out on the fun. I was particularly sad to have left university by that time as I had reports from a friend of the celebrations on campus.

monkeysmama, I agree-there are hard times ahead whoever gets in, it's a bit depressing and scary

trouble is i just imagine DC and co wielding the hatchet just that little bit more gleefully

Yes, agree monkeysmama. In fairness GB is saying there will be a rise in NI payments - to defend education and NHS budgets though, isn't he? But agree, we've not really heard the half of it.

I'm feeling a bit shaky having read some of the BNP thread.

I was stuck in a cab with a driver extolling the virtues of Maggie Thatcher a few weeks ago. It reminded me of the realities of a Tory government and the confidence it gives people with those horrible views.

Molesworth The Indy article almost made me cry. It is very good.

CatIsSleepy - I was referring to the OP's choice of adjectives for Tory voters who may be 'crowing' on here after tomorrow. I just find it offensive that I would be labelled a nasty racist for voting Tory, laughable that I am automatically lumped in with 'chinless wonders' as though no-one but the upper-middle classes votes Tory, (in your dreams) and I am that people who are usually so vociferously politically correct in their language and thinking will always be happy to make an exception to mock/insult a one particular minority group - but it's only upper-middle class white people, so it doesn't matter, right?

Some of the quotes on this thread are just unbelievable.

like this one:

"Really can't bear the thought of it. I want to shake people who are going to vote Tory and scream in their faces 'YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU DO!!!'"

Um, could you be any more arrogant? I think not.

Exactly the kind of speech I was thinking about.

ahundredtimes - I know, I know, and I get the joke, and feel her frustration, she's obviously passionate about her politics. Just making the point after the 'bigot lady' and the 'BNP' thread, that we all fall into the trap of stereotyping occasionally to suit our own agenda. You can't leap down someone's throat one day, then do the same yourself the next...I'm not angry as I sounded, honest, tongue is firmly in cheek.

Having a belief doesn't equal arrogance though.

It's called having principles. There's not much point having principles if you don't believe them to be true

Am sure principled politicians across the parties would agree with this.

Is difficult to hear though. I find the 'you stupid women, don't you understand what is wrong with the Lib Dems' stuff on here equally irritating fwiw

Could we just give up with the knee-jerk nonsense about child poverty and instead think about the issues (and policies) behind it.

'Oh oh oh the Labour Party have FAILED' scream the right wing press. Yet if you look at the actual data from the people who know pace the well respected combination of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation alongside the Institute for Fiscal Studies, you will see the picture is much more complex.

They report child poverty (which is also a relative measure, not an absolute one) as falling for six years until the last couple, most recently affected by the global recession.

And how, exactly, DOES a govt end child poverty? By providing support for working parents in the form of child tax credits, by providing a safety net for those unable to work in the form of benefits. Which requires investment of public finances. Interestingly, the JRF report points out that of those entering poverty recently, more are in families with working parents than entirely dependent on benefits. Which makes your decision about who you vote for - if this is an important issue for you (and it should be) crucial.

All the rhetoric about forcing single parents into work is NOT going to solve problems of child poverty. Neither is a slash and burn policy on public finances and benefits. And - dream on - if they think reintroducing a marriage tax break is somehow going to FORCE a load of irresponsible errant fathers from ducking their financial responsibilities for their kids, they are truly in cloud cuckoo land.

So, don't trot out hackneyed journo speak: please think for yourself.

Tiggy R.

Probably the most enjoyable thread I've been on here was one with Atlantis where we threw - good-naturedly - gross generalizations at one another, and let off steam.

She'd say 'Peter Mandelson''
I'd say 'Black wednesday'
she'd say 'iraq war'
I'd say 'Poll tax'

We didn't even pretend to argue policy That was good.

Well you didn't have to click on this link, TP, since it clearly wasn't aimed at you. If you don't like what people think about Tory voters, I suggest you go engage in the debate somewhere else.

actually i don't go a bundle on tossing insults around either (though I do agree with 100x about the spirit in which they were intended) Tiggy but in general i do think 'upper-middle class white people' are big enough and ugly enough to defend themselves (that's just a figure of speech btw, am not implying actual ugliness)

anyway, I think Nasty Racists have found their true home in the BNP these days

How did you become a leftie?

This is a question which I was pondering this morning as DS (4) asked me what an election was.

I remembered my mum explaining the same thing to me when I was about 4. We were walking home from nursery and I asked her why she voted labour and she said, "Daddy and I would probably be better off under the conservatives but as we are lucky and Daddy has a good job, we think it's fairer to pay a bit more tax to help people who aren't as lucky. We remember what it was like when we didn't have enough money."

I think that one moment formed the rest of my political life. It really sobered me to think that I was the same age as DS1.

So what made you a leftie? Can you point to a moment?

Tiggy, the clue is in the title, we're depressed and left wing. This is politics, it's an emotive subject that people are passionate about and stereotypes are rife regardless of which party you support.

I don't think anyone has labelled you a nasty racist (well I can't see it, if they have, feel free to point it out!).

Do you know what, TiggyR? Amazingly the white upper-middle classes seem to have escaped the oppression and exploitation suffered by other minority groups. So no, it really really doesn't matter if a few insults are hurled their/our way.

But in any case, it's not about class or race. The "insults" are about frustration with those who support a party which is openly protecting the interests of the rich at the expense of the poor, and whose economic policies are likely to return the country to recession or worse.

The thread moved on quite quickly whilst I was typing that, working and Mumsnetting are not good bed mates!

I think I was born a lefty hating Margaret Thatcher.

I can't remember the pivotal point. Was raised in a family of liberals (Jeremy Thorpe was the local MP).

I think actually it was the teacher's strikes in the early 80s, and the miners always on telly.

Child poverty rates did start to fall slightly but the amount they fell by didn't even meet New Labour's own targets.

Inequality is at record levels. The poorest have seen their incomes drop with more and more families falling below the poverty line. This was the case even before the recession hit.

WilfSell (cool name, btw)

Au contraire, I think it's good to know what various people think about Tory voters. I'm just quite staggered that many voters don't see someone's voting choice as OPINION but instead prefer to view it as a reflection of voters' level of understanding of the issues. I'm quite suprised by that level of arrogance. It comes across as "you'd stop voting Tory if you actually understood the issues LIKE I DO".