So, apparently there are 5,000 bankers who will get million-pound bonuses this Christmas...

[edam]

wonder whether anyone would back my single-issue 'let's take it ALL off them and raise £5bn to pay off the national debt' party?

On another thread, someone married to an RBS branch worker says not only are the high street staff not getting a bonus, their pay has been frozen and they are set impossible targets, like making more individual sales calls than the whole branch actually made last year.

And cracklin, the point is that Mr Million Pound bonus hasn't made that money in the private sector by his own skill - he's propped up by Mrs Jones the taxpayer's money and is effectively a public servant.

Oh and look what we have here. News out this morning that the Lloyds top management are to get a three year deal and huge bonuses just for taking over HBOS.

Well what a fantastic deal that was.

"Hundreds of executives at the banking giant are set to get up to 80 per cent of their annual salaries in a three-year deal. The move will anger the 11,000 staff who have been sacked as a result of the merger and independent shareholders whose investments have been hit by the takeover of the beleaguered HBOS, a merger in which Lloyds TSB chief executive Eric Daniels and HBOS chief Andy Hornby were instrumental.

The bonuses have been approved by the Treasury's arms-length scrutineer, UK Financial Investments (UKFI). The government yesterday appeared reluctant to condemn any deals with the Treasury, only going as far as saying bonuses had to be handled with "restraint"."

Surprise, surprise...

Ultimately this is a fairly straightforward issue of right and wrong. Appalling that the people in the wrong are getting away with it.

I have never pointed and laughed at bankers. I do not envy bankers, nor do I envy any private sector worker their bonuses. If I envied bonuses I would change to a job where I was paid them because that's the sort of person I am.

I realise, of course, that it would be disastrous for many people if banks went under. However, that is how every other business works so it would be fairer if the government bailed out the suffering individuals rather than bailing out banks who then choose to continue paying out a fortune to a small number of individuals when the company does not have the money.

The system is very wrong.

I see betadad has provided the sort of higher-brow detail some people have (oddly) been demanding. Thanks for that, beta.

Haven't read anything other than the OP...

I don't mind that they get large bonuses (and no I am not a banker or married to one). These jobs are open to all of us to apply.

There are plenty of gret jobs out there that look great and rewarding in a number of ways but I can't be jealous of them if I haven't bothered to apply for such a job.

Having said that, bonuses should be performance-linked and should relate to the term of the deals they do rather than on a 12 month basis.

It's not about jealousy, Nosey, it's about what the government does with taxpayer's (our) money. And about justice.

Banks (bailed out or not) are currently making large profits entirely on the back of QE, i.e. the govt printing money. This printing will be financed by future tax increases and public spending cuts (and the destruction of savings through inflation and currency depreciation). So we are all paying for this.

That bankers are skimming large amounts of cash off the top and paying themselves huge bonuses means they are stealing your money. And laughing at you.

What politicians (and everyone else) needs to realise is that City bankers/trader/brokers make their living negotiating deals.

They never agree a deal that is not to their personal advantage. Even now, there are complex negotiations going on with Govt and regulators and the bankers are looking for the angle, the profit, the get out clause, the free option, the free guarantee, the tax free handout. Its what they do for a living.

Politicians have been naieve and taken for a ride. I cannot tell you how monumentally annoyed I am by the failure of Govt to reign in bankers.

quite. They did the same thing with docs - failed to realise that GPs, for instance, are a. quite clever and b. running a business, so would negotiate quite hard and spot any opportunities.

The BMA went in with the usual 'ask for more than you think you are going to get and hopefully you'll end up with something decent' approach and were astonished when the government went, 'oh, OK then' and didn't even try to negotiate them down.

Even more ridiculous, ministers and civil servants badly miscalculated how GPs work and thought only a handful would tick enough boxes to earn the maximum number of points under the quality part of the new contract. Wrong!

I work for a bank, very very lowest of the low level and I am being made redundant.

sorry to hear that, sock.

thesockmonsterofdoom - I am very sorry to hear that and it is a perfect example of where banks have gone badly wrong. Pay millions to idiots who destroy the bank and sack the loyal staff who deliver the day to day service of core banking.

Whenever, I go into the local branch of my bank I get the impression no one cares how long I have to queue or what service I get.

I had to make an appointment to see someone a whole three days ahead just to corect a mistake on my account. I went to get a mortage and offered 100% security, pristine credit record, absolute bullet proof guarantee of making payments, fifteen years of customer loyalty and they treated me like a nobody who had just walked in off the street with no job. Shoved my details in the computer and said sorry the computer says no.

Utterly useless management. No other explanation.

I'm sorry to hear that too, sock.

Sympathies, sock.

My dear friend was also not a high-up and made redundant after 17 years of loyal service at RBS.

She has been unable to find another job and, at 45, has had to sign on for the first time in her life.

sorry sock
we're public sector, dp is probably loosing his job mine is under threat although there is a rumour my employer may offer a 6 month contract

still it will get us out of the 40k tax clawback to bail out the banks !!

Most of the bankers who screwed up have been sacked. Did you know that?

Many (not all, but many) of the remaining ones have never put a foot wrong, work damn hard and make a lot of money for their company - why shouldn't they get some of that back in a bonus? If you stop bonuses, the best workers will move elsewhere, the banks will be in an even worse state, some will go under all together and you, the taxpayers, will NEVER get your money back. Is this a better plan?

As for the cashier on £17,000 - the bank's future is not resting on his or her contribution to the business. They are a small cog in the wheel. A great deal more thought goes into sacking someone on a seven-figure salary. Why? Because they are/were probably doing something very significant to earn it. Despite what the Daily Mail and its ilk thinks, banks do not pay out million pound bonuses to people just for the fun of it. They pay them to the most talented employees who are keeping them afloat.Seriously, without some of these people at the top, plenty more £17,000 workers at the bottom would be on the dole by now.

They shouldn't get huge bonuses back because their company should have an obligation to settle some of its public debt. It's thaT simple Winter.

Do some bankers consider themselves to be working solely as individuals, like some sort of maverick freelancers? If the company has buggered up big time, bonuses suffer. That's how it is for most people.

But they don't just pay them to the most talented. We have seen that. It is tiresome having this blanket of weaselly words pulled over our eyes time and time again.

No, they don't just pay them to the most talented. I am referring to the "5,000 bankers to get million pound bonuses" title of this thread.

Trust me, no bank pays a big bonus to a useless employee. The size of your bonus is seen very much as an indication of how valued you are. And a sign to some that either they should leave or they'll be sacked.

If a company has "buggered up", shouldn't they do all they can to improve things? Or should they throw the baby out with the bath water, pay their staff buttons, wait for them all to leave, go bust and wear a hair shirt for the rest of the century?

Most bankers gets nothing like the figures quoted. An average salary for a mid-ranking banker (approx 30 yrs of age let's say, with an excellent degree, possibly an MBA) would be about £70,000 and he/she might normally expect a bonus of somewhere between £50k and £100k but last year - and this year - please believe me, most are getting well, well, well below that figure.

The bailed-out banks will never pay back their public debt without employing the brightest minds and the most capable people. This is simply a fact. And it costs money in the short-term.

I'm really amazed that people on here don't seem to see the logic of this. Surely you don't think people who work in banks are any more socially-minded than the rest of us? No one individual is going to think they were responsible for the recession and therefore they will work for peanuts until things are fixed. No, if they're shit-hot at what they do, they'll go where the money is. The bailed-out banks will then be left with those that couldn't get jobs anywhere else and.... well, you see where I'm going.

If you want your tax-pounds back (to be re-distributed to fighting a bogus war or something...) you might just have to suck up the envy and let people who are more financially-aware than you get on with fixing the economy.

I am not envious. We have gone through that lazy remark on this thread.

I am amazed you do not see that even the most 'talented' have to suck up the bad times to ensure the big bucks come again when their company has got out of its own mess.

It seems to me that the most talented do not have to suck up the bad times. If they're good enough, they'll get good times elsewhere - I know people who've done it. And I actually agree that banks can only get out of their mess by employing the best. Those people deserve to be paid well. You do not ensure the big bucks come again by paying people peanuts. Not when there are places out there still prepared to pay big bucks.

Isn't UK national debt close to £1 trillion ? Fat lot of good £5bn would do.