Andy B’s speech

[TheRealSmurfette]

What did you like / not like?

Well @blossomtoes I have 4DC and would be willing to leave for them. If it would help them.
Self funding medical insurance in eg India or Thailand and care may be much cheaper than staying here and paying tax etc - I guess we shall wait and see. It really depends on the individual’s circumstances. Health tourism has become a thing for a reason.

From what I have read one of the issues is that people who are not eligible for free care have to pay their care costs plus top up those who don't have to pay for their care. If everyone was given a basic level of care then maybe it would reduce the housing costs for everyone. I wonder if it would be possible to have state paid for care homes run by non profits only like a housing association type system. It would have to be funded properly and I think there should be a flat rate from someone's estate that contributes to this. I'm not sure what, but something like Teresa Mays scheme. I also think housing benefit should also only be paid to HA's and councils. I know that would lead to a 2 tier system but it's either that or people profiteering from state subsidies.

Well let’s hope your kids agree with you because the likelihood is that it would be their decision not yours.

No I think people will be writing their wishes down in a more legally binding form in years to come both as regards to their finances and their right to die/live which will be dependent on the jurisdictions they choose. Restricting people’s rights to choose in an increasingly globalised world is not going to work.

If you have a massive majority, you can do what you want. If it’s the right thing to do and seemingly popular (according to polls today) then just do it. Start saving those billions now.

He is taking a massive gamble on keeping that majority for the next election. He has 3 years to fail.

I thought the speech was good, too. He’s going to have to deliver it, though.

It was a brilliant speech.

If the accommodation costs are 3k a month, that’s way more than living in your own home. Everyone will default to receiving free personal care in their own homes.

No they won’t. If you need 24 hour care the only place to get it is in a care home.

Source? Many people get 24 hour care at home today - are they going to stop that in the future?

Only if they pay for it and it costs £££££. You’re looking at around £2k a week which is more than most care homes.

So he want to force people out of their homes into care homes. Then Burnham can make them sell the house. Makes sense.

How do you work that one out? It won’t be compulsory to use the NCS any more than it is to use the NHS. People who choose to pay a small fortune for 24/7 care at home now will continue to do so.

This is funny.
Under the NCS you will get free care in your home. This will keep people in their home longer. But like any public service you can always not use it and go private.
Just like no one is forcing you to send your kids to state school instead of private.

Only a very small number of people get 24 hour care at home. The criteria is that it must be a medical need rather than a social need.

I think it is fair enough to ask whether it will give the vast majority of people more rights/freedoms to have a national care plan. Or whether it will curtail people’s rights and freedoms, especially those who are funding society disproportionally already via highest rates of taxation. That seems to be the eternal question these days. Progressive taxation and good forms of nationalisation should be allowing everyone greater freedoms if properly and well implemented.

A Lib Dem type national care programme would give people more choice not less. A Labour type may well whack on a 20 per cent VAT penalty if you choose to go private instead and not opt in to their system. And therein lies a very key difference and I want to know which one Andy intends to implement.

I think they will have to do something so that accommodation costs aren't £3k a month. They will have to set up council or not for profit care homes through churches or charities. Why is accommodation costing that much? It's shared accommodation with mass catered food. The care is paid for. It must be profiteering from care home providers, which needs to be more heavily regulated.

Why will they continue to do so if personal care will be free?

For the same reason people who can afford it choose private healthcare or education. Essentially choice. And I very much doubt 24/7 home care would be free, anyone needing that would need to go into a care home unless they paid for it.

So you're now saying the NCS will only cover care at home and only X hours a day. Doesn't sound like the revolutionary policy that people were looking for - your version sounds a bit shit. Hopefully Andy will aspire for better.

OK well state boarding school fees for the boarding element alone are running at £20000 per year and rising and that is term time only and dorm sharing etc so it’s pretty much guaranteed that 365 days of care home accommodation and living costs will be well in excess of that especially given rising energy and food cost prices. Once you start computing it, 3k a month sounds very reasonable.

It is far better to give people reasonable figures from the outset that they should have in their pension so they can plan ahead for the care home needs. Just like it is far better to tell young people how many hours they need to work to have a decent living wage and get on the housing ladder.
At the end of the day, the State should be encouraging all to work as much as possible, save in a reasonable way and helping everyone to achieve this not by babyfying and paying for them, but giving them the tools to access housing, childcare, understand finance and pensions.

No. Try reading. The care element in care homes will be covered. As will care at home at its current levels which tend to be a maximum of four visits a day. Vanishingly few people pay for 24/7 care at home now because it’s almost double the price of a care home. It’s a bit less shit than no free care for anyone with assets over £23.5k as it is now.

You're just making it up. You state guesses for the future as if they are fact. Ultimately no one know what will and won't be covered, how much it will cost and how it will be paid for.