Why would Reform voters accept that they will scrap the NHS?

[NEGUY82]

Even when you present them with pretty undeniable proof they wants to do it they just say "lefty propaganda, he said he won't" - well of course he says he won't it would cost him the election.

I rely on the good Dr Google and buy all my prescriptions online. So either way, it wouldn't affect me.

The healthcare deserts within Mainland Europe are not on remote islands.
I don’t think you understand the term. It refers to the lack of availability of necessary for life goods or services in certain deprived areas which are usually rural but can also be within the bad areas of a large city. The lack of availability/number of deserts increases under for profit models compared to nonprofit models.

Correct, you do not pay that per person, you pay that per adult.

Why are you unable to understand the difference?

My family has two adults, four people, and pays less than €160 per person.

I really don’t know how to simplify that any further.

Being on a graduate visa is also a niche situation and not representative for the average Dutch resident on minimum wage.

It’s not a suprise. And yes, Britain has its own far right issues with immigrants right now too. It has affected alot of recent laws and policies.

But your family are citizens and/or have settled status which is not at all representative of what a British immigrant going there today would pay.

Yeah because most Dutch residents are…drum roll,,,Dutch!

For the last time, I’m not questioning your costs, I am defending the actual, real costs of my relative in the Netherlands that you have flatly rubbished as some sort of second hand fabrication. I even linked you to the NL website which shows the cost. Here is a screenshot.

That sounds good in theory but in practice I found it impossible to access care in the UK because of a lack of provision, like physiotherapy, GPs, dentists, hospitals and even health visiting was very meagre. My eldest never even had their two year check.

Yes so they would be eligible for the zorgtoeslag. So what you say about care not being accessible for people on less than minimum wage is not true. That is only true for people on temporary visas, a situation that you know about and accept if you decide to move to the Netherlands under such terms.

Well since the poster I was replying to had already informed the thread that children are free:

The insurance is the same cost for everyone and no one can be excluded. Children go free.

And I did not disagree with the above, it should have been clear to you that my per person reply clearly referred to adults.

I didn’t say it wasn’t accessible for immigrant workers on minimum wage I said
The insurance being the same for everyone means it’s really hard for workers on less than full time minimum wage to make ends meet.

This is from the post where I was talking about my immigrant British relative living there. So it is clear I am not talking about Dutch families of four where two are children.

You can say that’s not how it is for the local Dutch without trying to claim what I am saying isn’t true for my relative and others in the same situation. You have over 5m immigrants, at least 1m of these will be on visas and not settled.

If any claim is not true it is yours where you said The insurance is the same cost for everyone
I posted the cost for my relative and it was immediately pounced on as not real. Apparently the cost for everyone is not the same.

The first 3 are privatised and for profit in the UK. The last, hospitals, are partially privatised and insufficiently funded.

Oncology outcomes in the UK are worse than most of Europe. That's not my definition of stellar.

The cost is still the same for everyone, citizens and long term residents get subsidies under certain conditions.

Curious where you get the 6 million figure from? This source talks about 3 million inhabitants of the Netherlands who were born abroad:

https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/dossier/dossier-asiel-migratie-en-integratie/hoeveel-inwoners-hebben-een-herkomst-buiten-nederland

Most of these people will be on longterm visas or have Dutch and/or EU nationality.

Physios aren't privatised. Many services are provided by either NHS hospitals, or NHS community trusts.

Well yes it's all underfunded. Good care costs money, whether it's public or private. But it does seem like the UK is not ready for that conversation.

This is only going to get worse with the demographic pressures.

People who shit on the NHS should go and live in the US for a bit, to see what REAL shit healthcare is about. I will never forget being made to sit in the US hospital office, bleeding with possible miscarriage, because they needed to check how I'm going to pay for the treatment before they admit me. Fuck that.

So some of them do good work. Many of them dont. And they are bleeding money out of the NHS into private pockets. Leaving less money to run the rest of it. The bits that are less lucrative or attractive. So yes, it is a problem regardless of whether someone had a good outcome of an op because of it.

But nowhere in the Reform Healthcare policy does it mention scrapping the NHS - you just made that up.

Their healthcare policies are as follows:
The Reform Party's health policy centers on keeping the NHS free at the point of use while introducing private sector capacity and tax incentives to cut waiting times. Core proposals include the NHS voucher scheme, tax relief for private healthcare, and major changes to frontline staffing.

Key pillars of their healthcare strategy include:

NHS Voucher Scheme: Patients unable to see a GP within 3 days, a consultant within 3 weeks, or receive an operation within 9 weeks will receive a voucher for fully funded treatment in the private sector.
Private Healthcare Expansion: Incentivize the growth of independent healthcare to ease pressure on the NHS by offering a 20% tax relief on all private healthcare and insurance.
Staff Retention: Exempt frontline NHS staff from paying basic-rate income tax for three years.
Efficiency and Management: Cut "back office bloat" and unnecessary managers, mandate weekend operating theatres, and require NHS trusts to plan rotas further in advance
Alternative Models: Party leadership has expressed openness to transitioning toward a European-style social insurance system (such as the model used in France) for long-term sustainability.

Of course as is normal for all political parties, nowhere does it explain where Reform are going to get the money for all of this.

The figure I gave was ‘over 5m’ not 6m and in your link you can see them in the report as the 3m adults born abroad and immigrated plus their 2.1m children born in the Netherlands but do not have Dutch citizenship.

But again, I guess you were incorrect when you claimed the cost is the same for everyone and then counterclaimed with your family’s cost being different from my relatives cost, and then agreed there are subsidies that reduce the costs for people at different income levels depending on immigration status. It is very clear that the cost is not the same for everyone.

Nah mate, physios are just like dentists. If you want to see one, you have to pay private. Most physios aren’t accepting NHS patients.

But then you can say the same about the NHS, which is not the same kind of free for everyone.

Yes I agree completely. The NHS is terribly underfunded and no one is really prepared to pay for good healthcare either by extra taxes. The same people who would pay higher taxes have already left the NHS for private care.

By the way my family's cost is the same as your relative's cost. We don't get any subsidy either.