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Politics

Why would Reform voters accept that they will scrap the NHS?

203 replies

NEGUY82 · Today 13:22

Even when you present them with pretty undeniable proof they wants to do it they just say "lefty propaganda, he said he won't" - well of course he says he won't it would cost him the election.

OP posts:
AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:45

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 21:41

You are not charged for GP appointments. Its true that there is the risk excess, but its 385 euros not 500 and only if you get prescribed something. The GP appointments do not count towards this risk excess. Kids dont have an excess.

If you earn 30k a year you get 126 euros a month subsidy. You get subsidy until you are at 40k, that is for single people, a couple can earn up to 50k. Fulltime minimum wage is 30k, so if you earn less than that you get the full subsidy amount.

By the way the cheapest health insurance is 142 euros, not 166.

So the max someone on less than minimum wage has to pay is 142 - 129 = 13 euros per month, plus the annual risk excess of 385 euros. Most councils have local subsidies for the risk excess too, for people on benefits.

If you pay the health insurance you can access the care, nothing to do with far right immigrant issues. My British husband has had no problems accessing care.

At least care is accessible here, unlike on the NHS, which put my husband on a year waiting list for physio when what he really needed was an operation. I've also not had grandparents on a trolley in A and E overnight, my husband has. I know which system I prefer.

My relative did get charged. I don’t think you read the part about how certain parts of Dutch society hate immigrants and are deliberately blocking access to healthcare and charging when the should not.

If you earn 30k a year you get 126 euros a month subsidy. You get subsidy until you are at 40k, that is for single people, a couple can earn up to 50k. Fulltime minimum wage is 30k, so if you earn less than that you get the full subsidy amount.

That depends on your visa. She doesn’t get any of that with her graduate visa.

My British husband has had no problems accessing care.
Ah so he must be on a partner visa. Completely different immigration status.

EstoyRobandoSuCasa · Today 21:46

BIossomtoes · Today 21:39

The European models cost more. Ffs why do people keep blindly repeating this nonsense?

Goodness knows. You could show some people the data again and again (I have tried) and they will be still be saying that the NHS is a bottomless pit.

BIossomtoes · Today 21:46

NoLongerIn · Today 21:40

Not if there is no free at the point of access NHS (which is what the thread is discussing)

I’m talking about now obviously.

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 21:47

AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:42

I do not what? These are the exact monthly insurance costs my relative pays for herself as a single adult. She has Basic Health Insurance (Basisverzekering)
Which is mandatory for anyone living or working in the Netherlands
Covers essential care: GP, hospital care, medication, maternity, emergencies
Insurers must accept everyone.

The average Dutch basic health insurance premium is around €159 per month (2025), depending on your chosen deductible. So her €166/mo is totally average.

If your income is below a certain level, you may qualify for a zorgtoeslag (healthcare allowance) - up to €131/month for singles or €250/month for families, provided by the Dutch tax office.

My relative doesn’t qualify for the zoegtoeslag as she is on a graduate visa.

Your family of four can’t consist of four adults, meaning some of these are children who are free under the Dutch system.

Right, so your relative not qualifying for zorgtoeslag is a Brexit benefit. Nothing to do with the Dutch being far right.

Immigrants in to the UK pay an NHS surcharge.

Fluffyholeysocks · Today 21:48

BIossomtoes · Today 21:39

The European models cost more. Ffs why do people keep blindly repeating this nonsense?

Isn't it obvious they cost more? They function better!

Ellen2shoes · Today 21:49

Helpyourkids · Today 21:42

There is no evidence that mismanagement can be turned around in the NHS, as no one is directly accountable for anything.
All Blair's Government did in the late 1990s (which I voted for) was increase the funding, increase PFIs and get waiting lists down a bit. The system still rationed care with waiting lists though and I remember my DH going to Belgium for a MRI, as the NHS waiting list was 2 years!
I am now a Conservative voter not a Reform supporter but the NHS needs extreme reform, as it will only get worse if things continue with ever lengthening waiting lists for diagnosis as well as treatment. More and more people will opt out by paying BUPA premiums alongside effectively paying twice. Doesn't yet work in emergency though. More employers will offer private medical cover.
You only have to look at the growth in private online GP appointments to see that it will go the way of NHS dentistry, as people understandably vote with their feet, when they want to receive diagnosis or care.
I pay for BUPA cover and can in theory get a face to face BUPA GP appointment but I haven't used this option yet. I am generally healthy but if I need something from my NHS GP, I will have to fill in an online form and then will probably be dealt with by a nurse practitioner or similar so I can imagine that one day I will avail myself of the BUPA option which I am already paying for.
All because the politicians are too scared to reform the system in a sensible manner.

I think you’d need to look at the AI lead that @GeneralPeter kindly gave us to understand how the resources are being diverted.

AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:51

EvelynBeatrice · Today 21:39

I think their services would improve. people will vote with their feet if they’re paying directly and medics and GP practices with toxic staff will lose patients to better ones.

Goodness me, you think you get that sort of choice with a privatised system? You don’t. You go where the insurance company says you can in urban areas. Their favoured very cheap, barely qualified in network medics. You think even today that Bupa covers going to non Bupa clinics?

In rural areas, there will be more healthcare deserts with people fighting to see the only doctor in a 20km radius.

YesAndThenAgainNo · Today 21:52

AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:42

I do not what? These are the exact monthly insurance costs my relative pays for herself as a single adult. She has Basic Health Insurance (Basisverzekering)
Which is mandatory for anyone living or working in the Netherlands
Covers essential care: GP, hospital care, medication, maternity, emergencies
Insurers must accept everyone.

The average Dutch basic health insurance premium is around €159 per month (2025), depending on your chosen deductible. So her €166/mo is totally average.

If your income is below a certain level, you may qualify for a zorgtoeslag (healthcare allowance) - up to €131/month for singles or €250/month for families, provided by the Dutch tax office.

My relative doesn’t qualify for the zoegtoeslag as she is on a graduate visa.

Your family of four can’t consist of four adults, meaning some of these are children who are free under the Dutch system.

You do not “pay around €166/mo per person for the minimum state insurance.”

My family of four pays £2,500 per year in the Netherlands. We pay £100,000 per year in the UK for what feels to me like a worse service.

Suggesting I believe your second-hand story as told to you by your relative over my actual insurance cost is not sensible.

Helpyourkids · Today 21:52

EvelynBeatrice · Today 21:39

I think their services would improve. people will vote with their feet if they’re paying directly and medics and GP practices with toxic staff will lose patients to better ones.

Yes. If you can choose your GP, you only go where you are treated well. We currently have no choice and have to go to a GP practice serving our postcode.

AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:53

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 21:47

Right, so your relative not qualifying for zorgtoeslag is a Brexit benefit. Nothing to do with the Dutch being far right.

Immigrants in to the UK pay an NHS surcharge.

No, the GP laughing at her, refusing to prescribe her asthma inhalers and charging her €300 was the far right part. You assuming she’d been there since 2019 and so her costs must only be €13/mo not. €166/mo is on you.

Gingernaut · Today 21:54

Right wing policies have brought the literal shit show of water privatisation, as well as rail privatisation, gas and electricity privatisation, British Telecom is fighting for it's life, Royal Mail and the Post Offices are not doing brilliantly, British Steel no longer exists in any meaningful form, British coal is still in the ground, but is no longer economically viable and a huge portion of our society is reliant on charities, volunteers and good will

Foreign companies and governments own shares in transport firms - We, the tax payers are subsidising other governments through grants to the rail franchisees and bus companies

Our politicians are so stupid and inept, with corruption, cronyism and nepotism so rife and insidious that many important decisions about healthcare cannot be left in their hands any more

For those stating the NHS to be scrapped, Reform and to an extent the Conservatives, are looking to American insurance and health companies for policies

They have met and continue to meet with representatives from the organisations behind the current Trump presidency and have made speeches and given and received significant gifts and donations

Americans are dying and in increasingly poor health because Medicaid had been gutted and the drugs they need to survive are unaffordable

Medical debt is the single most commonly cited reason for bankruptcy over there

Our career politicians are so catastrophically bad, so self serving and short sighted, that even well meaning changes to our health systems will guarantee confusion, more damage and disenfranchisement

The NHS is flawed, yes.

The American insurance system is demonic by comparison

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 21:55

AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:45

My relative did get charged. I don’t think you read the part about how certain parts of Dutch society hate immigrants and are deliberately blocking access to healthcare and charging when the should not.

If you earn 30k a year you get 126 euros a month subsidy. You get subsidy until you are at 40k, that is for single people, a couple can earn up to 50k. Fulltime minimum wage is 30k, so if you earn less than that you get the full subsidy amount.

That depends on your visa. She doesn’t get any of that with her graduate visa.

My British husband has had no problems accessing care.
Ah so he must be on a partner visa. Completely different immigration status.

Edited

He has the equivalent of Settled Status.
But surely it shouldn't come as a surprise that someone on a temporary visa doesn't get benefits.

If I ignore the fact that my family has British nationality/settled status and we were to move to the UK on a work visa it would cost our family of four 3400 quid a year in NHS charges. About the same as it would cost us in Dutch health insurance. Does this make Britain far right too?

EvelynBeatrice · Today 21:55

AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:51

Goodness me, you think you get that sort of choice with a privatised system? You don’t. You go where the insurance company says you can in urban areas. Their favoured very cheap, barely qualified in network medics. You think even today that Bupa covers going to non Bupa clinics?

In rural areas, there will be more healthcare deserts with people fighting to see the only doctor in a 20km radius.

If you choose to live in very rural areas and are reluctant to travel, then you always have to accept the downside of less facilities of all kinds alongside the benefits. .

In Australia, you choose your doc. Of course, in the deep countryside or outback you have limited or no choice. In the other countries I’ve been in in Europe, you also have a choice.

Gingernaut · Today 21:57

EvelynBeatrice · Today 21:55

If you choose to live in very rural areas and are reluctant to travel, then you always have to accept the downside of less facilities of all kinds alongside the benefits. .

In Australia, you choose your doc. Of course, in the deep countryside or outback you have limited or no choice. In the other countries I’ve been in in Europe, you also have a choice.

What about those who have no choice about where they live?

Farming communities need healthcare

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 21:58

AmberTigerEyes · Today 21:53

No, the GP laughing at her, refusing to prescribe her asthma inhalers and charging her €300 was the far right part. You assuming she’d been there since 2019 and so her costs must only be €13/mo not. €166/mo is on you.

Edited

So sounds more like she had one experience with a bad GP rather than the entire health system being bad.

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:00

YesAndThenAgainNo · Today 21:52

You do not “pay around €166/mo per person for the minimum state insurance.”

My family of four pays £2,500 per year in the Netherlands. We pay £100,000 per year in the UK for what feels to me like a worse service.

Suggesting I believe your second-hand story as told to you by your relative over my actual insurance cost is not sensible.

I haven’t questioned your costs for your family.

You are the one questioning my British relative’s actual insurance costs.
They are paying €166 per month for the basic state insurance.

You can keep saying she doesn’t pay that, but she does pay it. And it’s the same price you can get today on the https://aanvragen.onvz.nl/index.html

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:01

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 21:58

So sounds more like she had one experience with a bad GP rather than the entire health system being bad.

Sure whatever you say.
The Netherlands is the land of milk and honey, racism doesn’t exist, and healthcare is only €13 a month.

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 22:03

Helpyourkids · Today 21:52

Yes. If you can choose your GP, you only go where you are treated well. We currently have no choice and have to go to a GP practice serving our postcode.

To be fair it's not always easy finding a GP in the Netherlands, and they will refuse to serve patients that are too far from their practice, as they sometimes do home visits still.

That said I feel really lucky with my GP. I can usually book appointments for within the next couple of days (either online or via the phone) and they have always been very helpful when I've had an emergency (three times recently...). They could fit me in on the same day.

Once I booked in when I had a skin rash when I was pregnant, I booked it for 3 days later. They rang within 10 minutes to give me a same-day appointment.

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 22:04

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:00

I haven’t questioned your costs for your family.

You are the one questioning my British relative’s actual insurance costs.
They are paying €166 per month for the basic state insurance.

You can keep saying she doesn’t pay that, but she does pay it. And it’s the same price you can get today on the https://aanvragen.onvz.nl/index.html

I don't think anyone is questioning the 166 a month. It was made clearer when you said she was on a visa.

The UK has an equivalent surcharge for immigrants, they don't get to use the NHS for free.

Fluffyholeysocks · Today 22:04

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:01

Sure whatever you say.
The Netherlands is the land of milk and honey, racism doesn’t exist, and healthcare is only €13 a month.

Yet we are to believe a GP who laughs and won't prescribe inhalers for a reason we are yet to establish is 'far right'.

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:05

EvelynBeatrice · Today 21:55

If you choose to live in very rural areas and are reluctant to travel, then you always have to accept the downside of less facilities of all kinds alongside the benefits. .

In Australia, you choose your doc. Of course, in the deep countryside or outback you have limited or no choice. In the other countries I’ve been in in Europe, you also have a choice.

I feel like it is pointless to say that choice in living rurally or not isn’t always under a person’s control and furthermore that even if it were, why should rural areas not have good access to healthcare? There will always be people, eg farmers, living rurally and are they not as valuable or as deserving of healthcare as a taxi driver in a big city?

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:06

Fluffyholeysocks · Today 22:04

Yet we are to believe a GP who laughs and won't prescribe inhalers for a reason we are yet to establish is 'far right'.

Go live in the Netherlands as a black woman then.

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 22:07

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:05

I feel like it is pointless to say that choice in living rurally or not isn’t always under a person’s control and furthermore that even if it were, why should rural areas not have good access to healthcare? There will always be people, eg farmers, living rurally and are they not as valuable or as deserving of healthcare as a taxi driver in a big city?

That is just a fact of life surely? If you live on a remote Scottish island you do not have the same access as someone who lives in Glasgow or Edinburgh.

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:08

CuteOrangeElephant · Today 22:04

I don't think anyone is questioning the 166 a month. It was made clearer when you said she was on a visa.

The UK has an equivalent surcharge for immigrants, they don't get to use the NHS for free.

No one was questioning the 166 a month? Yes they were.

per YesAndThenAgainNo · Today 22:52
You do not “pay around €166/mo per person for the minimum state insurance

YesAndThenAgainNo · Today 22:10

AmberTigerEyes · Today 22:00

I haven’t questioned your costs for your family.

You are the one questioning my British relative’s actual insurance costs.
They are paying €166 per month for the basic state insurance.

You can keep saying she doesn’t pay that, but she does pay it. And it’s the same price you can get today on the https://aanvragen.onvz.nl/index.html

You are moving the goalposts. You are moving from your original claim of what people in general pay to what your brother pays.

Your original claim of the cost per person was wrong, that is the cost per adult.

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