Would you vote for Angela Rayner?

[WildEnergySupplier]

Sounds like she's throwing her hat in the ring.

She says she's paid off the tax she owes and is no longer under investigation.

This apparently means she's free to run - and is going to.

Where have I expressed any of those views about her?

More importantly, how does that justify:

people starting and joining online pile-ons filled with mockery, condescension, pedantry and bad-faith interpretations simply to belittle or silence those who do not share their views

The resolution of her tax affairs is ultimately an administrative matter. People are still entitled to question the possible motives behind the actions or behaviour of someone in public office, especially when they and their party are running on a ticket of fairness, transparency and accountability

That is a long list of accussation you are throwing at us @NorthXNorthWest

You called Rayner a bad mother and got pulled up on that.

Standards are getting mentioned a lot and that is why I mentioned Johnson. High educational standards but low moral standards and I assume ones you'd rather not want your husbands to display.

People don't like to be reminded of that becaause when it comes to Rayner, snobbism plays a big part in the dislike for her.

Please show me one world leader today who does not have higher secondary school qualifications aka the equivalent of A levels in their country. The vast majority also have a university degree.
That really is not snobbism whatsoever, It is a standard of education most of the world expect from their political leaders.

Can you show us a world leader who has had to navigate the same obstacles as Rayner?

Beacuse you are basically excluding anyone who can't access the level of education you are insisting on.

You’re obsessed. So she doesn’t have a piece of paper. I have two of those pieces of paper and I don’t think Rayner’s any less intelligent than me. I just had more opportunities. What really matters is how she might perform on the world stage.

I’m really sorry to keep harping on about John Major but nobody cared about his lack of formal education when he was chancellor, foreign secretary or PM. The only thing that’s changed in the intervening 30 years is that the value of a degree has been diluted.

Why don't you just own your behaviour?

You called Rayner a bad mother and got pulled up on that.

More of the same, I see - exaggeration, misrepresentation and deliberate bad-faith interpretations.

And as for “standards” being mentioned, that is precisely why Boris Johnson was raised. High educational attainment clearly does not automatically translate into strong morals, judgement or character.

I am not “people” and I certainly did not raise Boris Johnson as aspirational or inspirational.

I have stated my views clearly, and none of them sneer at her accent, education, sex or background.

Her tax affairs and the explanations surrounding them do raise legitimate questions about judgement and morals for me. YMMV and that is fine, but it is still a perfectly legitimate position to hold.

I’m not justifying that-and I’m not saying you did. I’m just saying that there is very little criticism of Rayner that is not rooted in snobbery and prejudice. I’d love to have a proper debate-but I never seem to be offered one. And the pile ons and things you mention seem to come from the anti Rayner side!

Are you trying to pretend you didn’t say it? You might have crossed it out but we could all see it.

OK @blossomtoes @CurlewKate and @TopPocketFind

Please define “moral standards” and refer specifically to Angela Rayner if you like. No mention of any Tories please as not relevant.

Are you denying you said it?

I’m not interested in moral standards - everyone’s are different. My concern is whether Rayner is a competent politician with relevant and workable policies. Personally I share her belief in better employment rights, an expansion of social and affordable housing, nationalisation of water and rail and more devolution. She’s also a supporter of a national care service which Streeting ditched.

She is hardworking, she is competent, she cares about her constituents, cares about people's rights, she is not a racist.

She was rightly investigated and she made the right choice to step down during the investigation

I made the moral standard comment in reference to Johnson for obvious reasons but it is not about that.

I don't agree with her on everything but I think she is a good politician.

What has that got to do with me?

How does that excuse the pile on?

@Araminta1003 what standards you like to see other than education?

There is no world leader who did not finish their secondary education.

Angela Rayner did not even take her GCSEs and had many years to do them since.
I have a friend who is a politician from school who also got pregnant at 16. She then did her A levels and uni degree later.
This is not an obsession.
It is a factual statement vis a vis standards of education expected on the world stage pretty much universally.

As regards moral standards, agreeing with someone politically on their “moral compass” there does not equate to societal expectations of moral standards.

Yes.

There is very likely also no world leader who was pregnant at 16 and had to leave school to look after her child.

Men especially don't have that burden.

So maybe it is time for someone who took a different route.

It’s intellectual snobbery. How would she be better off with a degree in hospitality from Bournemouth University?

Last para @NorthXNorthWest.

What did you meant with this then?

"Especially when that “ivory tower” is apparently an £800k seaside flat 250 miles away from where her children live."

“It’s intellectual snobbery. How would she be better off with a degree in hospitality from Bournemouth University?”

@blossomtoes - who is being snobby now? What is your problem with Bournemouth University?

@blossomtoes and you are shirking around the fact she has no GCSEs and no A levels. Forget degree for a minute.

We are talking basic secondary education.
I am not willing for that to be our representation on the world stage when no other country has the equivalent there.
That really does not make me a snob. It makes me a realist.

I wouldn’t particularly want her to be Education Secretary either. Now maybe that would make me more of a snob. But I doubt I am the only one who would feel that way.

I actually don’t care that she has no GCSEs or A Levels. I might have had concerns if she had dropped out of school for no good reason and done nothing with her life. But that is obviously not true.

I don’t have a problem with Bournemouth University, it offers the best PR and communications degree in the country. Would she be more suited to leadership with a degree in hospitality? No. Would other leaders on the world scene be focused on her education level or her ability to communicate intelligently with them and contribute meaningfully? Anyway we’ve done this to death and we’re never going to agree so maybe we could discuss policy?

“I actually don’t care that she has no GCSEs or A Levels. I might have had concerns if she had dropped out of school for no good reason and done nothing with her life. But that is obviously not true.”

@CurlewKate - we tell our young people that they have to pass their English and Maths GCSE and that they absolutely need to do that. And multiple young people are struggling with retakes.

What kind of example would we be setting if someone who did not take these exams (when they were actually easier in those days to pass- I was in the same school year as Angela Rayner) were to lead the country?
The implication is the exams do not matter. I am not comfortable with that either.
Whilst Angela Rayner’s story is one of success and adverse circumstances, we have thousands of NEETs and kids out of school. The vast majority do not make it to the top. She is an exception.

I really do not understand why she still has not sat some basic exams. It makes no sense to me.

There is a basic standard of education that needs to be met in a country with free universal state education. That we should be proud of. And have to lead by example.