Would you vote for Angela Rayner?

[WildEnergySupplier]

Sounds like she's throwing her hat in the ring.

She says she's paid off the tax she owes and is no longer under investigation.

This apparently means she's free to run - and is going to.

Your post absolving KeepPumping says otherwise.

No. Never. According to wiki " She left school at 16 with no qualifications and after less than a year of working[2] she became a trade union representative within Unison".

The lack of a formal education and a career unionist are big nos for me. That's not to say she is a good/kind person and fun to be around. But we need a leader and education really does matter. Otherwise no one needs to leave school with zero qualifications do they?

Not in a million years.

Her wiki page also states

She later studied part-time at Stockport College, where she earned a National Vocational Qualification (NVQ) Level 2 in social care and learned British Sign Language

John Major had three O levels. Not only was he PM but he held two of the other great offices of state too. Lack of formal education didn’t hamper him.

Will you forgive me for using AI instead of proper links?

"Unlike most modern British Prime Ministers, he did not attend university. Instead of higher education, he continued studying through correspondence courses and went on to qualify as a certified banker (AIB)"

"In the mid-1960s, attending university was a rare and elite privilege in the UK. Only about 4% to 8% of the relevant young adult age cohort went to university. "

So John Major actually did continue his education, just not uni. This was at the time when uni participation wasn't widespread.

"Angela Rayner left her local comprehensive school at age 16 without any qualifications. Later in life, she returned to education as a mature student at Stockport College, where she learned British Sign Language and earned a Level 2 National Vocational Qualification (NVQ) in social care". Since AR became of uni age about 40-44% .

Don't you see the difference here?

John Major had absolutely no chance of getting into university or even into sixth form with three O levels. Both he and Angela Rayner have vocational qualifications gained after ending their formal education so no, I don’t see the difference.

I also don’t believe people need pieces of paper to be intelligent - radical, isn’t it? Or perhaps not when you consider that a collection of former miners, labourers and other manual workers formed the most transformative government this country has ever seen in 1945 with barely a qualification between them.

does this make her qualified for PM job?

can you imagine her having a conversation with Mertz or Macron?

No, both required a work ethic.

Just look at the breadth of academic qualifications across successive administrations. If having a higher level academic achievement alone made for skilled and effective leadership, Britain would be world leading in everything by now.

Yes I can and I have seen her doing so a deputy PM

What makes you think she can't?

I think she's done amazingly well to go from dinner lady to deputy prime minister. Would I vote for her? No, I wouldn't. She doesn't speak properly and I don' t know if she's educated to the same standard as Yvette Cooper or Emily Thornbury for example. I wouldn't mind her taking a ministerial post though.

What do you mean with 'she doesn't speak properly'?

My grandad left school at 14 in about 1925. He spent a year in a local engineering company (Alvis, they built fast cars and military vehicles) pushing a broom, and was then promoted to a junior role in the drafting office where the technical drawing and planning was done. He built planes during WW2. And he went to night school after work to study the maths and physics he hadn't learned at school. In his 50s he studied French to be able to converse with his opposite number in Toulouse while Concorde was developed. He retired as Chief of Engineering Standards. There is no career development pathway that would accommodate or contemplate his progress now.

She speaks perfectly well, she has a Lancashire accent which is no different to Gordon Brown’s Scottish accent or John Major’s south London accent. We’ve already established lack of formal education isn’t an impediment. I’d love to see Thornberry as PM, it’s not going to happen though.

I love that @Papyrophile. Just goes to show how much more meritocratic society used to be.

It is also unlikely that your grandma would have had the same chances.

Women have a lot more obstacles to negotiate.

While I disagree with Emily Thornberry on every subject that I've ever heard her discuss seriously, I like the idea of a female Labour leader. I prefer Shabana Mahmood though.

It still doesn’t diminish that amazing career from nothing. Yes, women have more obstacles which makes Rayner’s achievement even more impressive.

She didn't underpay.
She referred herself to get a definitive answer because she was getting differing answers to a very complex situation. She wanted to put her former home in trust for her severely handicapped son so he would have a forever home. (He was born very premature and is blind.) I believe she and her ex take it in turns to look after him. People often complain that politicians don't know about the problems 'ordinary' people have. Perhaps that is why we need people like Angela. She had a very poor background, illiterate mother, a teen pregnancy, worked in Care, supported her fellow workers by recruiting them into a Union to better their conditions at work, had a disabled son etc. She brings real life experience and true grit to the job, having overcome many problems that most of us can only thank our lucky stars we haven't experienced.

My grandma was the daughter of a small Lincolnshire village school teacher, and became a secretary in the same company as my grandad. She worked when her 2 kids were at school, and ended her career as a PA in the top team. I have never seen a grown woman dissolve into sobs as she did when I called in unscheduled, wearing my best suit. Where had I been? she asked. I had a meeting at NM Rothschild. She would have been thrilled to know that another grandchild also reached the same dizzying (to her) heights.

It's not the Lancashire accent. It's that she doesn't sound her Ts. She also called one of the Tories scum, when Labour were in opposition. She's not educated to degree level and I think you should be for politics, especially high office.

I didn't mean it as diminishing his career from nothing, it should be rightly celebrated. And as you say so does Rayner's career.

Sorry, I misinterpreted you. Limitations of the written word, you can’t pick up the tone.

I have a lot of time for anyone who has hauled their ass across an unpromising landscape to achieve a degree of success.

Like Boris Johnson?

His education didn't stop him calling people bum boys, letterboxes or loudly reciting Kipling during a Myanmar visit.