Why is socialism viewed so negatively in politics and media?

[Vix150]

Why do people not like socialism?

To me it doesn't seem disastrous but it's portrayed in the media as a horrific way for a society to run.

Any thoughts?

Labour's poll rating has more than halved in the last two years while Reform and the Green Party's have gone up significantly.

How is that at odds with me knowing people who've shifted away from Labour and towards Reform and the Green Party?

Well, failure to address Palestine has led to almost all conflicts in the ME, Afghanistan, Iraq, huge influx of migrants....

Now its caused war which will lead to inflation and further erosion in living standards....

Scandinavian countries have worked because they have had a strong social contract. This has been starting to fracture. If people don’t buy into the system then the system stops working.

Capitalism suits the mega rich who run everything far too well. Where's the incentive to change? Socialism is viewed negatively as that's the view we are fed by much of the mainstream and social media, who are also, curiously, owned by a handful of super rich individuals.

Yes but its still well down the pecking order for things that fundamentally affect this country (and I'm not sure these types of people will be anti immigration anyway). And obviously theres absolutely nothing anyone in the UK can do to affect any of it anyway particular as we have such a supine leader. We now have even less influence now if we ever had any. So it's really a bit of a waste of time.

But obviously that and trans are the issues du jour and people like to look trendy.

The biggest issue we have in the UK is that a simply vast amount of wealth is concentrated in the hands of a very few.
Ordinary people don't realise how wealthy the nobility continue quietly to be, with huge swathes of land in the UK held by just a few.

The 1% in the UK have obscene wealth and manage consistently to hold on to it.

They are quietly making money out if us constantly in ways we don't even see - like when it was revealed relatively recently that the Duchy of Lancaster (aka the King) owns a big chunk of the river Mersey foreshore and earns income from tolls on the bridge.

Its everywhere most people just aren't that aware of it.
Meanwhile we're told there's no money in the UK to improve schools and healthcare, and wages for everyone from the bottom to middle management are utter crap with loads of salaries all concentrated at barely more than minimum wage.

Quite a lot of Reform support comes from former Tory voters, heck even most of their MPs are Conservatives!
Labour are losing out more to LDs and Greens

Labour attracted around 33% of those who voted last time round, its now between 18 and 20%, that is not more than half....

Incredibly, despite the huge number of MPs, overall support for Labour among the entire electorate was 23%....

Polling, at this stage, is what matters, not individual anecdotes, which shows women make up around 60% of Green support, so 40% are men.

But back on topic.... We need both, Social Capitalism if you like.....

State interference and state control. State handouts in terms of land and wealth distribution. Huge petrol subsidies but because there is no money, in reality that just means petrol shortages. No money for a welfare state. Where would it come from?

"Mega rich". Most of the private sector are SMEs run by the non mega rich but for whom capitalism is the best environment for those businesses to work and who pay for the public sector and the benefits system.

Labour were polling in the 40s this time two years ago..

Reform voters make up a lot of the old Red Wall that only voted Conservative in 2019 due to Brexit. So I suppose you could call them "former Tory voters" but they probably aren't really.

Trans has pretty much gone away now for many people, changes in law, common sense to sport etc etc.

On Palestine, it very much affects our daily lives, not least when you fill the car...

Love the dig at Starmer, when did the UK last have influence but Starmers stance on Iran is hardly Supine, its the exact opposite but not his fault we have a run down military.

Name any PM who has gone against a POTUS ? as you re not keen on answering questions.... Wilson was the last one.

Yet have failed to win a by election in or around these areas....

Reforms support has waned a great deal since their 35% polling

The basic problem here is that there is no seemingly fair system as if you adopt socialism you simply change the people at the top of the tree, they will become the power hungry version of those people see as the capitalist version of the rich and powerful. On the whole I prefer capitalism as it allowed me to work hard and improve my life. Until human nature changes all forms of government will be bad for some and good for others. The best we can hope for is that democracy stays and we have the opportunity to remove the bad.

"Most of" in what terms? In terms of employees, yes, and 50/50 on GDP but not in terms of power or influence. I know as I work for an organisation representing SMEs. They punch above their weight but big organisations hold all the cards, and some have been allowed to become more powerful than nations or governments.

"Going against POTUS" for the sake of it is probably not something to be proud about in itself. It has to he in the UKs long term strategic interests and it's too early to tell what the effects are and whether they are good or more likely bad. The UK did have some influence eg Obama didn't carry out strikes on Assad when he used chemical weapons on his own people because Ed Miliband opposed it. Obviously the US learned from that.

I haven't answered your question about Conservative PMs as I need to give it some thought. If you do actually want an answer from me.

And remind me which media organisations are SMEs?

How could you possibly know how every single person in your life votes?

There's a noticeable shift to the right amongst older male working class voters (who benefited from socialist policies in the mid 20th century). It appears the shift to the right amongst older working class men is due to immigration rather than opposition to socialist policies.

I can't find anything that suggests a shift to the right amongst younger working class voters, especially women.

The working class is the largest socioeconomic group so it's obviously very diverse. Are these working class people you know older men?

Capitalism is a better environment than socialism if you are running an SME. Incentives are important and we don't have many of those at the moment.

Big business will support vast numbers of immigrants coming in so as to lower wages. No borders is Green policy. And the Greens are socialists.

Yes, in socialist societies you still get a small number of people grabbing more wealth and power, but less meritocratically.

I think philosophically it's interesting that modern leftists believe in more and more personal 'freedoms' (e.g. assisted dying, sex positivity, drug liberalisation, gender self-ID) but they don't believe in the freedom to keep your own assets or money.

Not in Europe..

They don't believe in the freedom to chose your own child's education. They don't believe in free speech. They don't believe in allowing country pursuits. They don't believe in religious tolerance, or equality before the law. They only believe in "freedoms" that they approve of.

They however would not say they are socialist countries. It's why there is a name for their particular version of capitalism - the Nordic model. Most of the businesses are private, not public. Fundamentally the Nordic countries run market economies with high taxation, a strong welfare state and strong worker protections. But they are not socialist.

Which leads me to ponder whether those in support of socialism actually understand what it is. Because it would mean either collective or state ownership of almost all businesses, albeit with a recognition that compensation needs to recognise skills and effort. State ownership always stifles innovation and, ultimately growth and employment prospects making countries and people worse off. Communism is a step further, with collective ownership of everything, no private property at all, no recognition of skills / effort but of need instead.

Who are these people?

A care worker working 60 hours a week is earning £762.60 gross or £30,000 net. That doesn't include extra pay for any unsocial hours and some free meals and uniforms

Socialism would be an ideal solution, if only it could be made to work successfully.