Social security spending out of control?

[Wizeman]

The UK spends about £334 billion on social security. Around £177 billion of that goes on pensions, which as a young person I’d definitely want when I’m older — especially if I’ve worked all my life and paid into the system. What I don’t understand is why some younger people are against older people getting a pension, because one day they’ll want one too.

About £145 billion goes towards working-age benefits, which is a massive amount of money. Around £76 billion of that is for disabled people, which I think is fair and necessary. But you hear so many stories about people taking advantage of the system, and a lot of those stories turn out to be true.

They say about 1 in 3 people in Britain are on some kind of benefit. I’ve personally been in hospital with serious injuries and had operations that put me out of work for months, and it never crossed my mind to claim benefits. I’ve also been out of work for about a year before while working towards getting a new job, and I just lived off my savings.

That said, I’ll be honest — I’ve always had support from my parents, like being able to stay at their house. I know not everyone has that kind of support.

But it does feel like fewer people want to work and some would rather claim benefits.
I also don’t think removing the two-child benefit cap will really solve the problem.
In Poland, for example, people get tax breaks for having kids, which encourages people to work.

Either way, £334 billion just sounds like an insane amount of money to me.

Do you want an uninteresed person caring for your parent, child or partner?

@smeusedo you think that someone who comes to the U.K. for care work because it gets them in on a visa is necessarily mega interested?

I think they are more interested than a person who is forced to to due to benefits.

So, what is your answer re the care of someone you love?

@blossomtoesultimately, migrants are doing care work because it’s the best economic option available to them at that point, not because they necessarily love it. People always seem to assume that British people are above doing this work whereas migrants are super grateful. My experience of care homes and hospitals doesn’t bear that out, tbh.

One obvious question is to rephrase the one about 'bed blocking' in the NHS

How many people are on benefits because they are not well enough to work but not sick enough to get proper treatment.

I suggest a lot

@smeusemy experience of care homes and hospitals has not borne that out at all, tbh. I’d choose the best managed home I could and try to judge on merits rather than nationality. I suppose that you’re happy to import an unlimited number of people to be carers for perhaps only five years and afterwards pay them UC top ups to do non shortage occupations or not work at all? And you’re happy to let the kids sit at home?

You are avoiding answering the question.

Would you have chosen a kid forced to do care work for your family member?

@Smeuseyes if well supervised and trained - they might turn out to be good at it and like it. Just like the person who was likely “forced” to do it in their home country due to lack of available other economic options.

In that scenario how are those who don’t qualify supposed to survive?

Now @smeuse,maybe you could answer my question. Do you think the current system of people earning a visa and unlimited access to benefits with just five years of care work whilst letting able bodied young people sit around offers good value for taxpayer money?

@ruethewhirlthis is the system in many European countries….

Sorry that should be @Smeuse

Well supervised and trained and hope they might like it.

Why is it always care work that people should be forced into?

Looking after vulnerable people.

Would you cut benefits from people caring for their own family members?

My experience is completely different to yours. My mum died in the arms of a compassionate and caring care worker from East Europe. The many visits to hospital with my bloke have shown the diversity of the NHS workforce - his latest surgery had a British surgeon, a German anaesthetist and Filipino nurses who were all top of their game.

Mine too.

It wouldn't have occured to me to ask about their immigration status.

@Smeusenope I wouldn’t.

To be honest, anyone who is capable of working (caring for a severely disabled family member means you qualify as not capable) should be working rather than on benefits - I have a cousin who is signed off and really shouldn’t be despite people on here saying “this never happens” - it totally does.

i don’t care what those young people do - any occupation would do! But you’ve still not answered my question about whether the current system is working well from your perspective, given we still have massive shortages and lots of people leave care after the 5 years is up. Singapore, for example, only lets you have your visa for so long as you stay in the shortage occupation you started in and it makes it hard to get citizenship… would this not be better for the pipeline if we could pay people more but actually keep them in care?

I’m currently a SAHM, but when my youngest gets to school, I’d consider care work if I could make it fit around school hours.

Care work is physically hard, long hours and low paid. Can be emotionally exhausting too.

It's something you have to be wanting to do, not something to be forced into.

Vetted, experinced and motivated immigrants looking after vulnerable people should be appreciated, not demonised.

You wouldn't want your children being cared for by an uninterested person

@blossomtoesoh I’ve had lots of doctors of many nationalities who have been brilliant. But I’ve also seen some very mixed care across the board.

@Smeuseso we should offer a visa and then ILR and benefits to anyone who wants to do some caring for 5 years and seems motivated?

Why not?

Alongside proper investment in the care section and proper pay.

So care workers don't need top up benefits.

Immigrants pay taxes too you know

@Smeusebut if there was proper investment in the care system and proper pay, British people might also want to do it and retention of people recruited as carers would be fine. That’s what I am arguing. @blossomtoesseems to think that there is no prospect this will ever happen because private enterprise owns the carer system so no one will ever reform it, so we have to import people to do unpalatable jobs that no British person would ever want to do for the minimum time they can stomach them forever.

In the current system, we give a visa and indefinite leave to remain to anyone who wants to do care work for five years. Lots of those people can then go and work in a warehouse or whatever, or drop to 16 hours and still satisfy universal credit. And lots do - the current system has poor retention because the conditions are poor. So we will be trying to bring people in for the minimum 5 year period forever, really - those who stay in care will be the people who don’t have good enough English or other options to do something else, not people who want to care for other people. You think this is truly sensible, under the current system?

The current visa system is unethical because it means there is little incentive to make the system a better one for the workers as long as there is a pipeline of desperate immigrants.

British people and immigrants can work side by side.

Why are you assuming that immigrants come here just for benefits?

Im against high amounts of legal imigration because I dont think our infrastructure can handle it, however im 100% in favor of lower numbers of legal imigration. My life has been saved more than once by imigrants.

That doesn't answer my question.

Foreign care workers aren't some uniquely non British breed of human.
We need to look at ourselves culturally and educationally to see why we don't produce enough good carers.
In the UK it is often viewed as 'women's work', for women who can't get a 'better' job.
We don't value the staff, and we need to start giving proper pay and terms and conditions, that are comparable to typically male jobs that require the same dedication, skill and unsocial hours.
Then we won't need an immigrant workforce to fill the roles.