Social security spending out of control?

[Wizeman]

The UK spends about £334 billion on social security. Around £177 billion of that goes on pensions, which as a young person I’d definitely want when I’m older — especially if I’ve worked all my life and paid into the system. What I don’t understand is why some younger people are against older people getting a pension, because one day they’ll want one too.

About £145 billion goes towards working-age benefits, which is a massive amount of money. Around £76 billion of that is for disabled people, which I think is fair and necessary. But you hear so many stories about people taking advantage of the system, and a lot of those stories turn out to be true.

They say about 1 in 3 people in Britain are on some kind of benefit. I’ve personally been in hospital with serious injuries and had operations that put me out of work for months, and it never crossed my mind to claim benefits. I’ve also been out of work for about a year before while working towards getting a new job, and I just lived off my savings.

That said, I’ll be honest — I’ve always had support from my parents, like being able to stay at their house. I know not everyone has that kind of support.

But it does feel like fewer people want to work and some would rather claim benefits.
I also don’t think removing the two-child benefit cap will really solve the problem.
In Poland, for example, people get tax breaks for having kids, which encourages people to work.

Either way, £334 billion just sounds like an insane amount of money to me.

Yawn. We’ve never had a thread on MN about benefit scroungers before.have we?

Who are the young people who are against older people getting state pensions ?

They say about 1 in 3 people in Britain are on some kind of benefit

This includes child benefit, which is pretty important to a lot of families.

A very small proportion is benefit scrounging in any form. Far less than is lost through tax dodges by the wealthy.

Half of it is pensions. End the triple lock?

Half of it is not pensions . If you look at your tax account at HMRC you’ll see where your tax is split into categories . My highest category is 20.1 % for welfare . Pension spending is lower as is education, nhs etc .
Pensioners are not getting something for nothing they’ve worked and paid taxes all their life ( unless they’ve always lived on benefits) . Their NI contributions would have paid towards the previous generations state pensions .
Far too many are reliant on welfare and sadly it’s the working age of today who will lose out because so many don’t see why they should take part in any social contract .

Where are the data to support your claims?

Younger people aren't against state pensions. They're against the almost certainty that they won't get one when it comes to them hitting retirement age, or having to wait until they're 80 to get it! No one seriously believes there won't be more changes to state pensions in future years as they're simply not affordable.

Most of them if you read the threads on here

What I don’t understand is why some younger people are against older people getting a pension, because one day they’ll want one too.

Demographics are important though, who will pay for the next generation of pensioners?

We are going from 5 workers to 1 pensioner in the 60s to 3:1 now & we aren’t far off 2:1. That’s the problem

About £145 billion goes towards working-age benefits, which is a massive amount of money

State pension has increased which means more people in their 60s are pulled into the working age category. But ill health is more likely in this age group the figures are skewed by increasing pension age.

Half of the welfare budget is pensions - the education, nhs isn't the welfare budget!

Pensioners are not getting something for nothing they’ve worked and paid taxes all their life ( unless they’ve always lived on benefits) . Their NI contributions would have paid towards the previous generations state pensions .

The vast majority won’t have paid enough NI though which is the issue.

Around £76 billion of that is for disabled people, which I think is fair and necessary. But you hear so many stories about people taking advantage of the system, and a lot of those stories turn out to be true

They do? Which stories are you talking about @Wizeman ? The ones trotted out on MN.

Anyway, what @LeftBoobGoneRogue said. Have fun disability benefit bashing on a Sunday afternoon.

Exactly

Which bit? That the benefits include child benefit? That's obvious isn't it? That CB is important to a lot of families? Surely that's obvious too?
Or that more is lost through tax dodges than benefit scrounging? Nobody seriously doubts that, do they? They only disagree on how big the difference is.

The parts on benefits scrounging and tax dodging. Where are the data on both of those please?

Given the numbers of people in work and claiming universal credit why are we not asking questions about scrounging employers?

In the same way successive Governments have allowed rents and house prices to rise so that families who in the past would have been self sufficient are no longer so.

Then of course what about the tax breaks for the wealthy? No National Insurance on unearned income. Capital Gains tax less than income tax etc etc

Who then is thy welfare scrounger?

End the triple lock

Thia should go now but it won’t. It will for younger people though.

Benefits of any kind should only be for those who have paid into the system. Then they should be pro rata to the time you have worked.

So no pension credit?

All benefits?

OP, are you saying that you didn't get SSP (Statutory Sick Pay) when you were so ill that you were in hospital? That would be most unusual because even if your employer was paying you sick pay, they woul be passing on SSP to you and topping that up to make up your salary.

Very easily found on all kinds of sites but here's a couple for you.

https://ralli.co.uk/which-has-the-greater-impact-benefit-fraud-or-tax-avoidance/
This is interesting because it states that the amount overpaid in benefits is less than the amount of benefits that could be paid but aren't claimed for.

Tax fraud 23 times less likely to be prosecuted than benefits crime - Big Issue https://share.google/rdQ6oKrqaKb3rsCVu

https://fullfact.org/online/benefit-fraud-vs-tax-evasion/
This one questions the amount of difference but not that it's a fact.

HTH.

A majority of those not of pension age claiming benefits are in work. A huge number because it includes child benefit, but also more than half claiming UC because their wage is too low to live on. Our wages are very low in this country compared to the cost of living. Many others are unable to find work at a level that is suitable, you may be unaware but we have a jobs crisis and many young people just can’t find jobs.

Maybe social security spending is too high, but I think you’re looking in the wrong direction for your concern. I would ask ‘why, in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, are wages so low significant numbers of people require financial top ups to have a basic standard of living?’ Yes there are some people who don’t ever work, but even answering why that is is far more complex than ‘they just don’t want to work’ in about 98% of cases.

If you don't have sufficient NI contributions your state pension is reduced.

Remove pension credit and/ or any form of pension for those who have not contributed. Remove the pension credit add ons immediately.

A very high number of people in receipt of universal credit are working. High rental housing costs are the root cause of lots of these issues. Personally I’d bring in rent control so that as a state we aren’t having to subsidise working people to live just so a small percentage of people can get richer.