Social security spending out of control?

[Wizeman]

The UK spends about £334 billion on social security. Around £177 billion of that goes on pensions, which as a young person I’d definitely want when I’m older — especially if I’ve worked all my life and paid into the system. What I don’t understand is why some younger people are against older people getting a pension, because one day they’ll want one too.

About £145 billion goes towards working-age benefits, which is a massive amount of money. Around £76 billion of that is for disabled people, which I think is fair and necessary. But you hear so many stories about people taking advantage of the system, and a lot of those stories turn out to be true.

They say about 1 in 3 people in Britain are on some kind of benefit. I’ve personally been in hospital with serious injuries and had operations that put me out of work for months, and it never crossed my mind to claim benefits. I’ve also been out of work for about a year before while working towards getting a new job, and I just lived off my savings.

That said, I’ll be honest — I’ve always had support from my parents, like being able to stay at their house. I know not everyone has that kind of support.

But it does feel like fewer people want to work and some would rather claim benefits.
I also don’t think removing the two-child benefit cap will really solve the problem.
In Poland, for example, people get tax breaks for having kids, which encourages people to work.

Either way, £334 billion just sounds like an insane amount of money to me.

@BIossomtoes

but in a world in which we did not bring people over on carer’s visas, allow them to bring their family, have no restrictions on what they might work as when they get ILR in 5 years (at which point we have to pay Universal credit top ups to them regardless of whether they are still working as a carer), we might have the funds to pay British trained carers more….

Yes. Pigs might fly. You seriously think care home owners and agencies would forfeit their profits?

Honestly, @blossomtoesyes we could if the government was more imaginative - after all, lots of these places receive quite a bit of public funding. We could choose only to give out care contracts to people who employ well qualified carers and pay wages on the official carer scale and require care homes to disclose this information so that those with private funding can vote with their feet. We could only allow a certain percentage of profit per patient as a condition of ongoing public funding. We could choose to change the system if we wanted to. We should be requiring people to fund their own care using housing wealth, as per Theresa May’s plans, with the quid pro quo of having a better joined up care system.

And even if the system doesn’t change, it’s not reasonable to import people into the U.K. to work as carers for 5 years, then give them and their families access to public money and no requirement to keep working as carers or even at all because they have “made a contribution”’for 5 years. It’s not a good use of public funds.

No way....I have paid loads in tax. Child benefit was scrapped when I had my kids if you earned 30k. Only free nursery places for over 3. No pension contributions paid when I was at home with the kids. I now owe contributions to make it up
Never claimed any benefits......still working but paying for nursery places and child benefit......so it works both ways

Brexit promised higher wages but raising the minimum wage has the Brexiteers up in arms.

As long as care jobs are perceived as low skilled, wages are not going to rise anytime soon.

But I’m among the very many people who wouldn’t vote for that completely unrealistic hypothesis.

@Sometimessmiling when was child benefit scrapped for earners over 30k?

This again? I’m seriously starting to think there should be a daily topic quota on MN. 🥱🙄

You think any of the other parties, in their current shape, would be an improvement?

Are you suggesting mass deportations of immigrants?

Another colour shirt might be more suitable in that case

So who exactly is going to fix the country?

Who will be returned to Parliament?

The answer is the members of the same managerial and political class that caused the * up in the first place

Pray why is everyone getting so aerated about Polanski? Is it the fear of a good example?

OK he & the Greens might not be perfect but FFS look at the rest of them

If the country come together to demand immediate change so it's actually worth getting out of bed in the morning the government wouldn't have a choice.

To go to work knowing you will have a bit of money left at the end of each week for emergencies or a summer holiday with your family is not asking to much at all. Instead people are literally living on the bread line not able to afford even the basics, never mind a treat like a pint or two at the weekend.

The Country can demand change?

What kind of change?

You can vote for change in your local election.

So who do you think will provide the change?

Reform?
George Galloway?
Greens?
Monster Raving Looney?
Conservatives?
Lib Dems?

(I am available to lead the Country into the Sunny Uplands if requested, just awaiting the call from The Palace)

@blossomtoesbut why not? I’m genuinely interested! TM’s plan would have capped people’s contributions and then the state would have paid after that. Or is it the low skill migration that you’re a massive fan of?

Anyone other than Labour or Conservatives is needed.
Social security, benefits and pensions are out of control and it needs action now. Even anyone like myself with a basic Gcse maths grade can see this.
Just turning a blind eye to this and the ridiculous government debts should mean immediate dismissal from government.

How are you going to rally to overthrow the current government and put @JohnofWessex in charge?

I'm not going to rally anyone. But maybe the local elections this week will be the start of something. Hopefully Keir will be gone shortly but I don't see the country putting up with Labour and this absolute shambles for much longer

Well you will have to wait until the GE and continue to put up with Labour.

Have a look at the 1866 Exchequer & Audit Departments Act

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/29-30/39/contents

In particular 15(2)

(2)The Comptroller and Auditor General shall, on receipt of a requisition from the Treasury, grant the Treasury a credit on the Exchequer account at the Bank of England (or on its growing balance).

IE The Bank of England has to create the money to fund any properly authorised expenditure by the Government so we dont need to issue Government Stock

Also read

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deficit-Myth-Modern-Monetary-Economy-ebook/dp/B081JVRT57?ref_=ast_author_mpb

And read Richard Murphys blog

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/

Oh and 'The Courageous State

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=the+courageous+state&adgrpid=187386368318&gad_source=1&hvadid=793624276307&hvdev=c&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=1006734&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=3249614438930591131--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3249614438930591131&hvtargid=kwd-316482416605&hydadcr=24427_2435352_1536&mcid=3d34e9bfc41f3481a5519baa784c2ea6&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_5y36w13pnr_e

'

Care work is poorly paid because it’s provided by businesses whose raison d’etre is to make as much profit as possible. That isn’t going to change regardless of who’s footing the bill. People cared for in their own home already self fund if they have assets of more than £23.5k apart from their house.

We have a falling birth rate, more people are dying than being born - how else do we fill the gap other than through migration? Already the NHS would collapse without it.

It would be interesting to see the comparison figures for other countries, then also as a percentage of tax take. This accounts for our entire income from income tax, which is the frightening thing.

I read a truly excellent article about this which showed how a 19 year old with anxiety is treated the same as a 58 year old needing a hip replacement under our benefits system - creating a disincentive for the 19 year old to work and massively reducing his chances of getting a job, thus worsening his mental health.
The article also showed how sickness benefit in the U.K. has gone up much faster than in other countries since Covid, because of all the autism/anxiety claims.

I’mvert much in the tough love camp there but admittedly that’s easy when you aren’t personally affected. My husband has anxiety, he gets beta blockers and cracks on. When work is stressful he takes more beta blockers. You can’t just not work, it isn’t good for you.

@blossomtoesthere are millions of young people on benefits. There are millions of people who are unoccupied or paid for just 16 hours a week on UC.

i don’t think that letting people in to do 5 years of care work actually makes a difference to the crisis in social care. Abuse of the visa system is rife.

And @blossomtoesyou could get the profiteers out of the sector if you wanted to, or better regulate it. Very few people think that opticians are profiteering, but these are private businesses with a mix of private and state funding with well qualified people working in them.

Fine. You make those young people work as carers. I’ll watch with interest to see how you get on.