Why would mumsnet leftists vote Green over reform?

[Wizeman]

Now I have your attention

What are the substantive political reasons for voting for the Green Party over Reform UK?

Please avoid responses based on personality or tone (e.g., claims that one leader is “nicer” than the other). Instead, I am interested in clear policy-based arguments and ideological reasoning.
Reform UK is led by Nigel Farage, a businessman with a long-standing role in national politics. The Green Party is currently led by Zak Polanski, whose professional background includes work in theatre and as a hypnotist.

With that in mind, I would welcome serious explanations focused on policy positions, governance approach, economic strategy, and long-term outcomes, rather than personal character assessments.

But tbh, Polanski indicating he could make a woman’s breasts bigger using hypnotherapy doesn’t inspire confidence in his character either. Plus his stance on wanting open borders which is the complete opposite of what the majority of the UK want at this point in time. And he is totally clueless when he is interviewed on the economy.

You know, I would and could answer this, but the way you are approaching this thread is so irritating and patronising that it’s making me want to stamp my foot like a toddler! Why don’t you say what your political beliefs and voting intentions are- with evidence?

Why should working class people pay for someone to not work and sit at home even though they have been offered work?

1 in 8 Britons take advantage of pip. I have severe dyslexia, ive had multiple operations on my body and I am eligible for pip. And guess what I wouldn't take the money because I can work just fine.

Someone I Know who has adhd works a normal jobs yet claims 400 per month for adhd meds, he doesn't spend the money on adhd meds. This is one example. People who dont need pip are getting pip.

1 in 8 people are not disabled.

But don’t you acknowledge that the NHS is not fit for purpose and needs some sort of reform? If it’s left as is, there will be no NHS in 10 years. It’s a poison chalice which no government will tackle because people are nostalgic about what it once was and just want the government to throw more money at it. Which isn’t working.

I'm not in the UK, but all of these policies seem to be punching down. Where is the taxes for the wealth? The investment in the NHS, the investment in social strutures.The idea that people are taking advantage of PIP is targeting those who are disadvantaged. Reforms slogan of Britain is broken also rings along the lines of MAGA.

I can't comment on UK green policies.

You asked why I’d vote for the Greens over Reform. I’ve answered. Your other questions are irrelevant. I would never, ever vote for Reform. I don’t believe in a word that comes out of Farage’s mouth. HTH.

Why does that include the obnoxious little comments on how valuable or “good” you believe their thoughts to be? Who made you arbiter of worth? What do you think qualifies you to be the judge of something like that?

But this is where there are contradictions from the left. On the one hand people are saying there are no jobs to push people into, but then are also saying we need more immigration because otherwise the NHS will suffer as they need immigrants to do the jobs in the NHS.

I'm afraid your answers are not quite good enough OP but well done for trying 🙏

I don't believe I mentioned immigration or the NHS, but since you asked...

The NHS doesn't have massive staffing shortages in areas where Joe Bloggs could work. They've actually cut admin roles and are reducing the number of contractors they hire.

There is a shortage of nurses because there is a shortage of funding for nurses, and the working conditions are poor, so many of our nurses are leaving to go into care homes, the private sector, or overseas. The same is true of doctors; those are the areas where immigrants are currently needed.

I'd love to hear Reform's plan on how they'll recruit the local crackheads into roles as doctors or nurses . Do you plan on putting them through uni first, or are we just gonna give them a uniform and off they pop to their new nursing job?

I'm usually regarded as a leftist and I wouldn't vote for the Greens or Reform.

Political beliefs.

Controlled imigration of net 10k per year, Only letting in high skilled workers

Stop illegal imigration

Imigration has been around net 500k over the last 10 years

This in my opinion has cost the uk huge amounts of money through infrastructure.

let me explain, you build 7 infrastructure per year and the population through primarily immigration increase by 14 per year, 7 infrastructure can only serve 7 people not 14, do this for 20 years and you are left with broken infrastructure.

e.g early 2000s people complained about short waiting lists because there was for example 10 hospitals that could serve 10 people ( in other words the hospitals local population was the same as it was designed to serve)

20 years later there are extremely long waiting lists and yet the budgit has doubled
Because hospital are over capacity.

ill show this in another example.

the nhs in 2000s builds one hospital per year the population increases by 1 per year, so they match, in the early 2000s migration started to increase all the way up untill 2020-22

what this meant was 1 hospital was being built and 2 population was coming into the country, so the budgit increased and increased for 5 years, this worked, but eventually the budgit couldnt go up anymore.

meaning we were building say 5 hospitals per year but 10 population was coming in. This is why although budgits for the nhs has gone up, our services have gotten worse.

Just to be clear im not blaming individual migrants im blaming the speed population has increased

if you changed what i just said from hospitals to houses, roads or any other type of infrastructure its the same.

in short the money cant keep up with the population growth

So what if you did the opposite?

Lets say right not we are at 100 infrastructure and 150 population, so currently our infrastructure has to many people using it

infrastructure increases by 5 per year while population increases by 10. What if we made it so population increased by only 1.

Eventually you would get to the point where you have 170 infrastructure let's say and 170 population. We would get to the point where our infrastructure is able to serve the correct amount of people, houses for people, good roads, no waiting lists.

You also be able to could funding from the nhs for example. Why build 5 hospitals per year when the population is only increasing by 1 now? (Before it was inreasing by like 10)

i hope you understand my point.

this would after maybe 5 or 10 years of low migration allow for cuts that could go towards other things like growth. Gdp per capita would go up. Basically we build infrastructure at a rate that doesnt keep up with the numbers of people coming into the country, even with us chucking more and more money at it. Its like a bath tub being flooded with water and the drain doesnt drain enough so the house gets flooded. All you need to do is turn off the tap!

Benefits should be fair, if you are disabled you get disability payments, if you are out of work you get 5 possibly 6 months to find a job plus you will be pushed to first on the list for jobs. This would save lots of money and increase gdp because people would be in work.

Going green, cant do it to quick as it would bankrupt country, money save from infrastructure like nhs as i said could go towards this. 1. In helps the planet 2. Its good for people to not breath in co2 3. Its free energy other than maintenance and infrastructure cost wich will decrease once tec improves.

As gdp increases i would try and decrease tax as it would probably gow the economy more and gov would probably gain more tax than before because it would be attractive for richer people.

Im still unsure on who to vote for, definitely not green, conservative or labour it would have to be one of the other parties. Im still unsure on farage, if he does what he says id vote, however like any politician im unsure if he is going to do what he says. Also this thread is just so I can understand people's opinions. Happy?

Its late im tired I could go on about this all day but thats what I think should be done. Some points are quiet complex so I hope you understand.

"I'd love to hear Reform's plan on how they'll recruit the local crackheads into roles as doctors or nurses . Do you plan on putting them through uni first, or are we just gonna give them a uniform and off they pop to their new nursing job?" Greens want to legalise all drugs.

Im trying to be nice.

Im not, maybe in future

Fair point

What's the point in doing the same thing if it dont work though?

Whilst I would prefer plans to help people off addictive substances, legalising them gives the opportunity to tax them and ensure they're pure and not tainted with rat poison. It's not a bad idea in theory, but I'd need to look into more to decide if the Greens plan to implement it properly, i.e., do they mean legalise and control it, as in you could pop into a chemist to buy a gram of speed, or do they mean just ignoring it?

Also, imagine the tax you could raise from weed farmers? One decent crop can be worth tens of thousands.

Hospital waiting lists haven't gone up because of immigration though? Most migrants are young, fit and healthy. It's more the backlog after Covid, an ageing population and the dearth of social care.

I don't agree with any of Reform's policies, they will take out the NHS, stop welfare benefits to the majority of claimants, leave the ECHR. They deny the holocaust & follow the Trump ideology.

I was a Labour party member until Rachel Reeves stopped the Winter Fuel Allowance & introduced the Family Farm Tax, I left in disgust & joined the Green Party instead, since Zack Polanski became leader they have given me hope that there is another way for our country to be run, membership is growing day by day, so many people are turning away from Labour.

You’re failing. This simply cannot be how you communicate with people in everyday life. You can’t believe this is is appropriate. You would be unemployable and very very lonely. Is this just how you think women should be spoken to? “Wizeman” sure is a misnomer if that’s the case!

In that case, I suggest you do a lot more research about Reform. Listening to The Trawl podcast would be a good start.

Are you from the Reform PR department, OP? No rationale, compassionate leftist person would ever vote Reform. We don’t need to ‘back up’ our answers.

If you tax wealth they will leave. Also we dont need investment in the nhs we need 5 or 10 years of low migration so the infrastructure we are building can catch up.

I have manner I use please and thank you, dont you? Thank you.