Why would mumsnet leftists vote Green over reform?

[Wizeman]

Now I have your attention

What are the substantive political reasons for voting for the Green Party over Reform UK?

Please avoid responses based on personality or tone (e.g., claims that one leader is “nicer” than the other). Instead, I am interested in clear policy-based arguments and ideological reasoning.
Reform UK is led by Nigel Farage, a businessman with a long-standing role in national politics. The Green Party is currently led by Zak Polanski, whose professional background includes work in theatre and as a hypnotist.

With that in mind, I would welcome serious explanations focused on policy positions, governance approach, economic strategy, and long-term outcomes, rather than personal character assessments.

Do you not think trying something new would be better even if it is reform or green? Surely voting for the same thing will just lead to even more of a "mess"? Thanks for answering though 👍

Pretty good answer. What makes you think reform are anti disabled and women?

If new means punishing the disabled, forcing more people into poverty, and selling off the NHS to Nige's mates, no, new would not be better.

Also, Labour and Lib Dems didn't cause the mess; fourteen years of Tory austerity did.

Who would you vote for then? voting for labours or conservatives is the definition of insanity."The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

Back in 2010 the Tories were blaming Labour for the mess they inherited, surely at somepoint labour has to look at themselves? Punishing the disabled how? Forcing more people into poverty? What do you think of reforms plan to stop tax on people earning under 20k and stopping giving benefits to people who dont find jobs? Hmmm? Surely thats pushing people to work and pushing the people who work out of poverty, it would make lower paying jobs worth it.

I vote Green here in the US. So totally different party.

It’s all over the fact checks the history of the Reform Party and its predecessor UKIP- their MPs records are publically available. Their party manifesto is why I say they’re bad at math, as there is no way they can deliver on their promises. They have found that out in all the councils they have won.

Now Zak Polanski and the boobs thing, the fact checks are that he as a hypno-therapist offered sessions that would make women feel more body confident to include about their breast size. He has apologised for how this was sensationalised in the way you have referred to it. He never said he could make their breast bigger with his mind 🤣 that’s just how it was reported. You may think hypnotherapy is woo but there are many women who find it helps with the pain of childbirth, and both sexes as part of therapy to overcome anxiety in different situations- ie fear of flying, fear of holding a work meeting, fear of doctors, fear of dogs..

By reading their proposed policies (which you have recommended)

What maths is wrong? They've actually explained how they would do it in multiple press conferences. How will the green party afford to make the country go 100% green? It would be more expensive by 10 fold than reforms plans, how would they pay for it? I found your answer a good insight though so thanks.

@zzplee I assume the reason some Labour voters are moving to Reform is due to immigration. There is a perception among a lot of working class people that Labour used to be the party of the working man, but now cares more about the rights of immigrants. They’re disillusioned with Labour, the Tories are too posh, the Greens too hippy, so Reform get their vote.

I have recommended so I know them, so what policies are anti disabled?

Mumsnet leftists 🙄

To grab attention

This 💯

Targeting PIP as a benefit to cut is punishing the disabled. I've already answered your question on their plan to stop welfare payments for people who are unemployed. It cannot push people into work because there is no work to push people into. Forcing people into poverty does not magic up non-existant jobs. It does the opposite. People have less to spend on goods and services, and smaller businesses suffer for it.

There are currently 2 jobseekers for every vacancy, when you take into account that a large number of the vacancies are ghost jobs and MLMs, that gap is even wider.

I actually think raising the tax threshold to £20,000 is a good idea, but it's not worth the downsides of voting Reform. We're all one redundancy, accident, or illness away from becoming reliant on UC or PIP, so sweeping cuts with no/few plans to create growth or improve health care will never sit well with me.

Not sure why you’ve given Nigel Farage such a glowing introduction and only referred to Zac Polanski’s background before he moved into politics.

But in answer to your question, I would vote for the Green Party over Reform because they want a fairer society. Their policies include taxing the wealthiest, especially big businesses, addressing the cost of living crisis and proper funding for the NHS.

Reform aren’t interested in helping regular, normal working people. Their manifesto says one thing but Farage says the opposite. For example, they pledge to plough money into the NHS, but in the next breath, Farage is talking about an insurance based system. So It’s hard to believe a word he says. He just says what he thinks people want to hear. His bluster just smacks of the ‘£350m a week into the NHS’ slogan he pushed during the Brexit campaign. Which didn’t happen.

Just look at what Trump is doing in the US. You can expect more of the same here if Reform take control. No healthcare, no support for anyone with any kind of disability and the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer.

If you re putting a gun to my had then it would be Green. Both are dreadful and I’d vote. Mainstream parties n preference to either,

1. Targeting people who are taking advantage of pip

1. If you are unemployed fit to work you can be on benefits for 4 months so you have time to look for a job at the end of the 4 months the government will offer you jobs, if you dont accept them jobs you lose benefits. What's unfair about this? I lost my job and used my savings while looking for another job, I found a job in 4 months. Minimum wage is good now, plenty of jobs in supermarkets or pubs that pay enough while you work you way to a propper career.

1. Forcing people to work puts people into the jobs people dont want that often we make imigrants have, surely its a bad thing to expect imigrants to do some of the harder jobs?

1. No one will go into poverty, as i said the government would offer jobs after the 4 months in the private sector or in government, more people working means bigger economie which means more buisness and more jobs.

I dont think you have done your research.

The "anti woke" rhetoric. Farage's support of Andrew Tate.

Yep The OP is clearly a Reform supporter. Nothing anyone says would ever convince me to vote for Reform. They are all smoke and mirrors.

What’s your estimate of the number of people ‘taking advantage of pip’ and based on what data?

And what’s your proposal for people who don’t accept being forced into jobs after 4 months? You’ll leave them on the street? Doesn’t seem very workable.

1. If you tax the rich to much they will leave, if they leave who will provide jobs and pay for services such as the NHS? Look at old communist States during communism and after during capitalism e.g Poland

1. Nhs funding has doubled since the early 2000s when believe it or not people complained about waiting lists being to short. Its a population explosion problem not a money problem.

Just a question, do you think making all drugs legal will help the most vulnerable in society and our kids?

Do you think a wide open border will be good for the country?

This is green party policy by the way

Which jobs are these? Forcing people to pick fruit isn't practical. What does Reform propose will happen to the children and elderly that they usually care for, while they're miles away, living in a shared caravan? I don't want the elderly being cared for by the long-term unemployed who've been forced into it. Generally, if someone is long-term unemployed, there is a reason for it. They're unemployable due to addiction or untreated mental health conditions. They aren't suitable for jobs in care.

I thought we weren’t talking about individuals?

When I was made redundant it took me 8 months to find a job. Unless you live in a big city there really aren’t ANY jobs.

I think a protest vote for Greens because you don't like Reform isn't going to stop Reform getting in. A protest vote for Labour would have a higher chance.