Friendships and Trump

[YourBrickTiger]

Hi, just writing this out of sadness mostly, not looking to apportion blame. I'm very close to being cut off by a very close friend due to our different politic beliefs, which up until now through 10 years of friendship we have just left in the background. I had posted something about Renee Good and how I felt what had happened to her was murder. My friend who saw it sent me a video of a different viewpoint - from ICE's viewpoint. Unfortunately I misinterpreted it that she wanted to have a conversation about it, as all she said was 'you may want to watch this'. I said that I thought we were heading for a world war and that Trump was responsible. I said I didn't understand how a Christian (which she is) could justify the murder but think that what Charlie Kirk preached was ok.

FYI I'm Irish and she is from Texas and a republican. I have stayed with her before and we have always been there for each other. I thought it was just a debate but I woke up this morning to a long email from her outlining how hurt she is at what I said. I would never hurt her I just hate what is happening out there and I believe Trump is dangerous.

Has anyone else had this experience? I have told her how much she means to me and that I am sorry I crossed a line.

I couldn't have someone like that as a friend, no matter how long the history. It's a fundamental difference in principles that you can't just gloss over and carry on. As for Trump, his supporters have a cult mentality. Anyone who opposes their cult can't be trusted. Your friend is trotting out the standard response of cult members, sorry. You shouldn't be blaming yourself.

Shut up with your whataboutery. Trump is acting like a maniac and invading sovereign countries for his own financial benefit and expects the world to roll over. The UK government hasn’t been “sticking it” to him, if anything I think we’ve been too sycophantic.
Banging on about small boats (clearly flagging yourself as a daily mail reading racist btw) is entirely irrelevant to the rest of your comment and just designed to stir, if not your critical thinking skills really need some work.

Edut- having read your other comment that you don’t think you should be judged by how you voted I can see there is no hope for you. If you don’t think we should all stand behind and be judged by our vote, I.e. the kind of country we want to have, then I despair for the world. For info people have always judged others by how they vote, just in the past we may not have talked about it as we were too politely British, but that is no more.

Did someone piss in your cereal this morning?

She's right though.

Some of the most generous, open hearted welcoming people I have met are Americans. People who will help you, if needed, without a second thought. Then you find out they also fervently support Pigly. I don't understand how this can be but it frequently is. Imo that one thing cancels out the rest. It defies reason and defies argument. Someone poisoned the water? Madness, collective madness.

In your opinion, yes, and I respect that. You can feel strongly about something, however:

"Shut up with your whataboutery."
"clearly flagging yourself as a daily mail reading racist btw"
"your critical thinking skills really need some work"
"I can see there is no hope for you"
"we were too politely British, but that is no more"

There is nothing of meaning here, just anger and bitterness.

Sorry I just meant the parts about Trump, apologies.

YorkshireGoldDrinker what a very odd perception of events you have. You don't think Trump is a massive problem? Never mind. You're about to find out what he is and you can enjoy it along with the rest of us. You'll love it.

So she holds all these views you don’t agree with, and in some cases you don’t just disagree but think her views are harmful

She is allowed to try to change your mind, but you’re not allowed to post anything that (indirectly) criticises her views

I think this friendship is over. It would be if I were in your shoes. As pp says, she’s effectively in a cult.

Honestly, I’m surprised by how deeply people in the UK get involved in US politics. Don’t we have more than enough issues of our own to deal with, right here on our own streets?

As I have said before as it was widely publicised on the media 'When America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold'.

This IS our issue. If you don't see it now sadly you soon will.

It’s not about seeing or not seeing issue, it’s about misplaced energy. People in the UK spend countless hours obsessing over US politics, arguing online as if it makes a difference. It doesn’t.

What does matter is what’s happening here. This is our issue, and it affects us directly. The UK is steadily moving in a direction many seem either unwilling or unable to acknowledge. I come from a country that lived through socialism and communism, this country hasn’t.

If you don’t see it now, or don’t think it should be a priority, you will. And by then, it may be too late to pretend it wasn’t obvious.

I don't agree. If Trump keeps going the way he is, we are all collectively screwed. He's already threatening to bump up all of our tariffs. This blinkered mentality that we should only focus on ourselves is crazy.

I think there's a HUGE difference between 'not going there' with a friend whom you suspect might have voted old-school Tory in the past because of how they're brought up or because they're constitutionally stolid or because the centre has shifted to the left, and tolerating the humanity-hating views of a racist (ATSALT - All Trump Supporters Are Like This, they know what he is by now) violent, law-breaking, populist ,warmongering, predator (on every level) madman, about whom one can only ask not whether he will destroy the world, but to what degree.

I completely agree. I’m married to one of those old school Tories you describe. He had his head in his hands throughout Johnson and Truss’ premierships and Trump makes him feel exactly the way I do.

By the way, the centre has moved inexorably to the right in the last ten years.

I think in friendship as in so many other things, it's about reaching a point of critical mass. I can cope with - actually not only cope with but actively enjoy - having relationships with people holding different viewpoints. Debates and discussions around these things can be so interesting and informative. However I think that all rests on how far those views differ from your own, on how far someone pushes your non-negotiables. Someone I know was famous for his old-fashioned (outdated) principles but everyone was able to get past it and maintain a relationship with him. Then I heard him say - and mean it - and try and persuade another male friend that 'all women need a slap every now and again'. When pushed on the point he said that women shouldn't push a man too far in an argument because they should know their place or get put in it. That was it for me. No more do I tolerate him. There are different views and there's outright repulsive, disgusting, misogynistic bullshit. He reached a point of critical mass for me.

See also abortion. I fully respect anyone who wouldn't do it themselves but cannot accept anyone who would approve of or try to influence abolitionist policy thereby trying to police others' bodies as much as their own. No. I've been sterilised btw and am too old to get pregnant anyway. I still couldn't be friends with anyone who believed that.

I had a friend who voted Brexit. He had specific financial reasons based upon his own business that influenced his vote. We are still friends. My cousin, who happily admitted he voted Brexit because he felt there were too many Indians in Britain (I shit you not) is an idiot too far in my view and I no longer feel any need to know him. Critical mass of idiocy.

Similarly I used to enjoy a discussion about left and right politics and how that differed between the US and UK but in my eyes Trump and his current posturing is all too much. I can no longer have any respect for anyone who supports Trump, no matter who or what else they are/do in their life. I would love anyone to give me solid, fact based, believeable reasons that explain how he's good and right and would love to be persuaded he's not just some kind of weird, orange lunatic, but so far I haven't found anything. The more he and his supporters say and do, the more I wonder if I'm living in some kind of parallel universe to them.

These are my views and my important points of critical mass. I don't expect anyone to have the same ones but I can only work with what I know.

You and your friend are now too different as people. Your points in common are outweighted by larger points of opposing view. Your friendship has reached this point of critical mass and actually I wouldn't, in your position, feel a great sense of loss.

Published by whom?

Where are you getting your information? If you can go direct to the source, then do. To be honest, a lot of what you've said makes me wonder where you're getting your information. And why would you send her a video of Nazis?! What was that about?!

I'm not even a Christian, I'm not an American - and I'm sick to death of seeing warped versions of things being attributed to Charlie Kirk that he never actually said. So easy to defend a dead man. Shameful.

I hope you can save your friendship. Maybe you both need to take a step back and think about how you communicate. Sending each other thirdhand versions of news and memes is not a great idea. That is not how to have a full conversation about any issue.

If you'd read what I'd written - and I hope you aren't trying to suit your own narrative - I didn't 'send' her anything. I reposted a video of Renee being shot, which then captioned underneath that Nazis started by going to people's houses asking for their papers, which is what ICE are apparently going to start doing. It was a video on MY story on MY facebook page. She doesn't have Facebook. It copied to my Instagram story - fair enough, but it was not aimed at or sent TO her. I would not have done that. I was angry a young woman had been shot. I did not call my friend a Nazi and didn't even equate it to her beliefs.

She then sent me - in a PM - a video of what American news were showing with a note that read 'this might change your mind'. The angle from the ICE agent. When I say 'published', I mean by the Irish media in MY country.

Yes it certainly has overall - but I was thinking of the brief Corbyn moment which I think will have pushed some wet centrists to make a corrective vote

I think if possible in these cases you should try to maintain the friendship, because more division and less listening to each other is definitely not going to help things. That doesn't mean apologising for saying what you think or backtracking, but it might mean saying 'this is really difficult because we clearly disagree on lots of things, but I still really appreciate how generous you are and that we share a sense of humour' (or whatever). I guess she feels that spreading the nazi rhetoric is endangering her because people believe it and have a go. Difficult to have much sympathy with her for that but you could tell her you didn't mean to make her feel bad, which you didn't. I think we need to try to remain friendly and civil despite our differences otherwise we will never find a way to live peacefully will we.

However it sounds like it's not possible to maintain the friendship in this case but I think you probably did what you could. It is difficult isn't it. You certainly shouldn't apologise for your views just to stay friends as that would not be real friendship would it.

@YourBrickTiger apologies -
I thought you had sent it to her directly - am I reading in too much of a rush, that wasn't clear to me

so feelings are running high, I think it's a real shame to lose a friendship over politics though. But it sounds like it might have gone too far for a decent conversation.

The most helpful person when my father died was a lady whose politics are completely the opposite of mine. We've only ever had totally respectful conversations. When the shit hits the fan, it doesn't really seem to matter.

I suppose it depends what kind of shit hits the fan.

I do not want to lose her but I'm struggling with the lack of forgiveness, from a Christian and one who can forgive an ICE officer shooting a civilian. I feel stupid also because for 10 years I thought we were best friends, like sisters and the second this happened she said 'our friendship is superficial anyway, we don't see each other' and it seemed it HAD to be about her views.

I give up - anyone who has read my last threads about my heartbreak will understand. I'm just shit at this, shit at relationships it seems.

Cult mindset. If you're not with us you're against us. It's probably best for you both to let it go, things are unlikely to improve for some time.

She’s in an echo chamber and wants to stay in her echo chamber. She has rightly identified there is a lot wrong with the world, then wrongly identified the difference between good and evil, enabling her to justify evil deeds for what she considers to be good ends, despite all evidence pointing to the fact that no good will come of Trump’s actions unless the “good” being done is to free the Earth from humanity.

You can be friends with people who have differing views, sure.

But after this point? “She then went on to say that there was nothing wrong with his stance on not wanting a black woman to fly a plane as that is simply 'filling a quota'.”

No - I would not want to continue the friendship.