Friendships and Trump

[YourBrickTiger]

Hi, just writing this out of sadness mostly, not looking to apportion blame. I'm very close to being cut off by a very close friend due to our different politic beliefs, which up until now through 10 years of friendship we have just left in the background. I had posted something about Renee Good and how I felt what had happened to her was murder. My friend who saw it sent me a video of a different viewpoint - from ICE's viewpoint. Unfortunately I misinterpreted it that she wanted to have a conversation about it, as all she said was 'you may want to watch this'. I said that I thought we were heading for a world war and that Trump was responsible. I said I didn't understand how a Christian (which she is) could justify the murder but think that what Charlie Kirk preached was ok.

FYI I'm Irish and she is from Texas and a republican. I have stayed with her before and we have always been there for each other. I thought it was just a debate but I woke up this morning to a long email from her outlining how hurt she is at what I said. I would never hurt her I just hate what is happening out there and I believe Trump is dangerous.

Has anyone else had this experience? I have told her how much she means to me and that I am sorry I crossed a line.

That's way OTT for alleging you 'put her life in danger'?

The more I hear the more I think maybe just gently fade away. She sounds fanatical and a bit nonsensical. Above and beyond the fact you (and ,I) find her beliefs unpalatable.

It’s part of the problem of modern day identity politics. Not just the very obvious trans ideology agenda, but also the more hidden in our echo chambers of the way we identify, and the way we then think about others. Our political identity becomes so enmeshed that we become unable to think of our politics as anything but “good” rather than a practical distribution of power and wealth.

the upshot is that the alternative is “bad”. It is not only not conducive to civil political discourse but makes friendship across the political divide difficult because of the inherent moral judgement tied up in political identity.

Start from the position that I may well be wrong. Obviously neither you nor I think we are wrong, and so we believe what we believe. However, starting from the caveat that even though I don’t think I am, it’s entirely possible that I may be wrong, or may have not conceived the entire picture, then allows you to treat others as though their choices and interpretations are, if not agreeable to you, at least valid.

Op - whilst I think it’s admirable you want to retain this friendship & try to see things from her side; and I believe people can be friends even with differing views - I do think you really need to evaluate what this friendship brings to your life.
If your friend is willing to put aside (as in not discuss) potentially divisive topics as are you, then you might be able to salvage the friendship. But I would question what else you can connect on?
Equally, whilst it’s fine to having differing opinions on say, the welfare state, believing that black women shouldn’t fly planes & women should submit to their husbands, those sorts of views are both racist & misogynistic & I don’t think I could be friends with someone who agreed with them.
And no, you haven’t put her in danger, unless you’d plastered the post with her name & home address - but it does sound like maybe she feels an inkling of guilt about how close the current ICE operations are getting to Nazi tactics & doesn’t like that being pointed out.

No, you haven’t got it wrong. Whilst there are many in America who agree with Trump, there are also many who don’t. Many who are calling out this behaviour & actions. The Trump government are actively talking about either buying or invading/annexing Greenland which is a semi-autonomous country that is part of Denmark. The US has no claim on Greenland; the Greenlandic people wish to remain part of Denmark & do not want to be part of the US, but Trump & his cronies aren’t listening. My personal favourite quote was Trump recently saying Denmark couldn’t claim ownership of Greenland because a guy in a boat landed there 500 years ago - I mean, you can’t reason with stupid there.

Exactly. I am happy not to discuss it further with her, which is maybe made easier by us being an ocean apart. However, doesn't it matter that who she votes for and supports could be putting us ALL in danger? Why does that not seem important? She told me today she cannot be friends with anyone new who is a 'left' supporter as she does not trust them.

I'm of no threat, I live on the other side of the world to her, so I was just offering as an outsider what I'm seeing here. She says it's distorted by the media. It's like the right is 'right' no matter what. God forgive me but I almost wish that it all just does blow up and we can prove Trump is a danger! But the 'right' probably wouldn't accept that either. 😩

Yes this too - I tried to tell her that people 'from the outside' of the US do not take kindly to him thinking he has a right to just claim whatever he likes. I guess my own feelings and grave dislike for the moron got in the way and I was hoping she would see sense

The US media - particularly things like Fox ‘News’ is heavily biased in support of Trump & even other news sources are incredibly US-focused & still seems to have the US is best mantra. I follow a few expat Americans who have relocated recently & to say they’re shocked not only at how badly America is viewed by the rest of the world, but also how little world news is reported in America too is an understatement. The US has become very insular I think, more so in recent years. It’s not helped by their education system to really doesn’t educate them on anything much outside of US history.

An Ipsos poll yesterday showed that 1 in 5 Americans were not aware Trump wanted Greenland.

I found that rather shocking.

I just feel sick to my stomach that what Donnie wants, Donnie gets and it will be at the expense of everything. I'm SICK of narcissists getting their way and pulling the wool over people's eyes, including my friend.

Off topic, but for the record, Kirk's opinion wasnt that black women shouldn't fly planes, it was that if an airline put in a quota that said 50% of their new pilots should be black or female (way higher than their previous hiring pattern) he would worry getting on that airline and seeing a black pilot as he may not be there on merit. He immediately qualified that with aomething along the lines of "and thats not the person I am, that's not how I usually think, but these policies cause you to consider this". Which you still may disagree with, but it is quite different from the earlier summary.

Thank you - that's how it was published here. Thank you for the correction.

She does sound hyperbolic for the ‘life in danger’. But also, reaching for the Nazi card is also pretty inflammatory.

If you knew that a friend was pro-choice (as am I, fwiw), sharing an Auschwitz meme that makes the link would be too.

Even though it’s just plain fact that the number of lives extinguished via abortion in the US each year is roughly equal to the average annual Nazi extermination toll through each year of the war. There is a link to be made, but it’s still a (in my view) highly crass link and will predictably offend. People should be free to make the link, but also can’t be too aggrieved if it provokes a strong pushback.

@YourBrickTigerI realise you’re upset about this friendship but I agree with the PP that there are things I will tolerate and there are clear red lines. I’ve got a number of friends who I know I would disagree with if we discussed certain subjects. Generally we don’t go there.

The views of your friend are abhorrent and I wouldn’t be friends with someone whose values are so fundamentally opposed to mine.

Yeah I guess if she felt she was being called a Nazi I could see it could be hurtful. But her views are highly inflammatory and prejudiced, at least to some people. And OP wasn't calling her one, she was saying the actions of a public figure/body seemed like that of a Nazi.

You do not have to do anything of the sort. I don’t need to be in the company of people who are racist or homophobic or anti-Semitic etc, in order to expand my world view. There are plenty of ways to do that.

I could be friends with your average right wing supporter, but anyone who sees what Trump is doing right now and supports it has no place in my life.

It sounds to me that you care too much about US politics to just sweep it under the carpet in order to maintain your friendship with this woman. I wouldn’t be able to either. If I were you I’d let the friendship gently slide; you’re incompatible.

Sorry but str sounds like a lunatic.

I'd tell her to wind her neck in and stop making a political party her identity because it's weird.
That just because you support a party doesn't mean you need to blindly agree with everything they say. And that many republicans are anti trump.

As for the bible saying submit to your husband, theres a minister online, I'll see if I an find his YouTube, who points out that word was poorly translated from the original texts which did not say that. The word submit was also used regarding a different matter shortly before and may have simply been reused. Also, God calls himself a helper of the people (I think it was the land actually). Does that mean he is less than or not equal to the people? No. You aught yo be very clear with her that under god man and women are equal, we are certainly not our husbands servants.

Nobody who votes for Trump is a lovely person TBH.

Your friend seems to lack empathy and morals. If she thinks what Charlie Kirk preached was OK then I’m afraid your friend is not a good person. She might have been lovely to YOU but that doesn’t mean she’s a lovely person.

If you want to remain friends with someone with very different morals to you then that’s up to you. Personally I wouldn’t be friends with anyone who thinks Charlie Kirk’s views are acceptable or in any way try to justify ICE terrorising people.

@BoredZelda

I don’t need to be in the company of people who are racist or homophobic or anti-Semitic etc, in order to expand my world view. There are plenty of ways to do that.

I agree you don’t have to.

But you will cut yourself off from probably more people than you realise.

You can’t be in the company of most British Muslims for example (polling varies, but in 2009 Gallup found 0% believed homosexuality is morally acceptable).

If believing nation is defined by bloodline is a red line then that’s 93% of Koreans out (and many other cultures).

If it’s that “violence may be needed to save the country”, that’s 31% of US Republicans.

And 28% of US Democrats.

One in five US whites say there ideal neighbourhood has no blacks in it.

Two in five US blacks say it has no Hispanics or Asians.

…you get the picture.

If you add all such red lines together, you are left with almost all your fellow humans as some sort of alien species not to be consorted with just read about in books.

The endangering her life thing does sound OTT. Maybe ask her to explain that, to understand her reasoning behind it.

However, most people consider themselves good, and linking their beliefs in any way whatsoever to Nazis is not going to go down well. I don't blame your friend from that regard: it's hurtful, judgemental and, in my opinion, pretty ridiculous. Their optics aren't great, but at the end of the day ICE are sending illegal immigrants (many of them convicted criminals) back to their legal countries, not sending them to the gas chambers.

True. But an institution that she knows her friend supports. In that way parallel to the abortion example. I think quite a lot of pro-choice people would be upset to see a friend post that meme.

The thing is she didn’t even enter my head - which in hindsight she should have. I posted it because I disagreed with what ICE are doing. I genuinely didn’t think carelessly.

So she's ended it - says she cannot trust me and she doesn't feel safe. I did everything I could to apologise and told her it was thoughtless but she says the trust is broken. All because I hate that man and what he stands for. I'm gutted.