Luxury cars removed from the motability scheme

[AutumnLeavesandKnittedJumpers]

https://news.sky.com/story/luxury-cars-removed-from-motability-scheme-ahead-of-budget-13475029

too little too late. As a full time worker I can’t afford to run a car, let alone a luxury car. Motability should be a standard car - available in automatic and manual, an option for wheelchair users, and that’s it.

As you say, YOU use the car to drive YOUR disabled son to and from where he needs to go or for whatever the trip is needed for which benefits him, that absolutely is what the mobility scheme is intended for. It was not developed to be used to pick up your grandchildren and take them out for the day if it does not involve or benefit the disabled person who's car it is actually intended for. It is also not intended for anyone else to use as a work vehicle or leisure interests which do not involve the disabled person which were the examples I gave in my reply.

The examples you have given are completely different and ultimately benefit your son which is fine and fit for purpose.

So you’re ok with stopping the State pension for someone who has a private pension? Child benefit? Free bus passes? Maybe you’d like to force people who earn over, say, £100k to only send their children to a fee paying school?

I think this is part and parcel of the current mood. People feel free to call private education a “luxury” and to tax it. The idea is being floated to means test the state pension.

I think the private school tax was a failure revenue wise. Means testing the state pension would have the long term negative effect of people working less and saving less. I don’t know the ins and outs of motibilty, but I suspect the proposed changes to it won’t help our balance sheet.

The general attitude that we can control everyone else’s choices and have a right to do so needs to change. The idea that benefits should be means tested rather than universal will further divide us. We need to wise up to tricky manipulations and stealth taxes. There is no magic money tree and we should butt out of each other’s private choices.

So it makes sense for a family to have two cars, one that’s solely used for the benefit of the disabled member, and another car for the rest of the family? Or maybe the family should get the bus while the car sits unused on the driveway? Answers that seem simple are often completely impractical.

Just putting some figures to that £77/week
for the 1.9 million people that currently use the scheme that’s a total of

£7,607,600,000 a year
so
just over £7.6 billion

Where does that 0% figure come from?

I was talking specifically about Motability fraud in which I maintain motor dealers are complicit.

It cannot be right that there are no fraudulent claims for PIP. Every now and then there's a well publicised prosecution.

As a Welfare Rights Adviser I've seen people getting Enhanced PIP for Mobility who simply don't meet the criteria for 12 points either for mobilising or needing somebody with them.

Many things are VAT exempt. The VAT exemption on Motability vehicles isn’t an inherent part of the scheme, it’s because they are for disabled people. In the same way that home adaptations for disabilities are VAT exempt. Medical, surgical supplies, mobility aids, specialist equipment, vehicle adaptations - all VAT exempt for disabled people - which they have to prove btw.
Similar with the VED. Even if the disabled person didn’t have a Motability vehicle they would still be entitled to apply the VED exemption to another vehicle, because it is a disability ‘benefit’.
Both of these exemptions are to help make the scheme affordable to a larger number of disabled people. The average income of disabled people using the Motability scheme is half that of other UK average households, at around, £18,500.00. These are not households that would otherwise be buying a car through usual channels and therefore paying the VAT. It isn’t ’lost’ revenue, it is revenue that wouldn’t exist anyway. They simply wouldn’t be able to have a car. And when the car provided means they can stay in work (and, whisper it, pay tax) that undoubtedly saves the state money. A lot of it.

Do people need to be on PIP to get access to the Mobility scheme?

Nobody is disputing that some disabled people need assistance with transport. But having a disability does not meant that you should be entitled to nicer things than the average worker.

Yes which they’ll still be getting ?

It feels like everyone is being diagnosed with something or other these days!

Many if not all disabled people are also tax payers. Many work, full time, if they don't they are paying VAT on goods and services.
These benefits are almost like a tax rebate to cover the additional costs and lost earnings you bave when disabled. For example, you might work full time, but can't take that higher paying job as you can't get to it or do the travel required, or dk the hours. So your earnings potential is limited from what you cpuld achieve if you are not disabled.
If you think of the payments and schemes in terms of a rebate to level the playing field then it is more palletable than simply thinking 'I am paying for another persons luxury car'.
No, you are not. They are getting some money back to support themselves with the extra costs and account for the limit on earnings.
They can either take it as cash, or put it towards a car. If they want to put it towards a car they can choose a standard car, or put an upfront payment out of their own money to get a better car.
And these cars are leased, so they will never own them as an asset.
I do think the directive to move towards British built is a good idea. But I don't see how removing the option to get a bigger or better car at a persons own expense will benefit the tax payer. As even if you hse the argument about the VAT exemption, there will not be any VAT paid on cars that are removed, just as there wasnt when they could be purchased. So no change in VAT revenue.

One of my friends has a motability car for her DD. She decided that she wanted a fancy electric car and applied for a grant via a charity for the excess payment. She could have had a lesser model of electric car without any excess but didn’t want the same as another friend of ours has!

I don’t have a problem with people choosing a better car as long as they pay the difference but don’t pass the cost onto another charity. These charities should be providing top ups based on a need and not preference.

Yes.

you have to be receiving high rate mobility.

pip is assessed in two parts - mobility and care. Each section has a low rate and a high rate.

motability is only available to people who are assessed as needing high rate mobility.

Excellent news. You don’t need a luxury SUV for your mental health, especially if you’re depending on the government to fund most of it.
This scheme should be limited solely for people with physical impairments and payments should be on par with able bodied people who pay for them (which is a lot for higher end models)

So no one needing a WAV can afford one then unless they also happen to be a high earner, great.

I agree that to limit the number of Motability cars the VAT exemption should be removed, but that means removing the VAT exemption from the disabled altogether, Now, the Government happily did that for education, because it's ideologically opposed to people having choice. However, I can't see them wanting the headline of 'Government taxes wheelchairs and crutches' !! Much easy to play the envy card, whip up a frenzy among the hard working' left and those with the broadest shoulders and guilt Motability into removing the cars from the list

One might just say limit the VAT exemption to the level below that at which luxury car tax is applied (£40k?), but then anyone who does need a heavily adapted wheel chair accessible vehicle for them and their family would be excluded

It clearly states on the Mobility Schene website that the disabled person either uses the car themselves or it is used purely for their benefit.

It is not ok for someone to frequently use their disabled relatives mobility car for their own purpose or work which does not benefit the disabled person. That is not the purpose or intention of a mobility car.

I do not use my own mother's mobility car for my own purpose even though I'm her registered carer. The car is for her and her only.

There's no VAT due to the exemption, so the govt (taxpayer) are losing 20% of the difference between a "basic" car and a "luxury" car. At the very least, VAT should be charged on the upfront extra deposit!

i hope your not as thick looking as you sound? They are given to DISABLED PEOPLE who qualify for a mobility benefit and they then give up that benefit in order to have a car that suits their needs. Yes, some people have high end vehicles BUT have to then find literally thousands of pounds in some
cases that is non refundable as an advance payment. Let’s hope none of the benefit bashers need to ever use the scheme!

There are a few other benefits, such as DLA for under 16s, Adult or Child Disability Payment in Scotland and some benefits specific to people who've served in the military.

Just to throw another bomb into the thread - British cars.

there are very few British owned car companies these days.

there’s Morgan (sports cars) Aston Martin, and McLaren who do the F1 cars.

that’s it.

now speaking as a disabled person I would bloody love the taxpayer to give me an Aston Martin (wheelchair adaptations might be tricky) but I’m totally up for that.

who else is in?

I agree that limiting to those with physical impairments would be a start, but these cars, rightly, would still be cheaper because they have a VAT exemption. Which for the physically impaired is fair enough I think. From what I have seen of Motability prices, most people could lease cars for similar prices if you ignore the VAT.

It’s not benefit bashing though. It is similar to private school/healthcare: you can either get the ‘basic’ service for free or you can choose to pay for the ‘luxury’ service but the state won’t contribute anything.

Those entitled can still get a high end car if they choose to pay for the upgraded car with their pip money instead of claiming one via the motability scheme. Obviously it doesn’t come with all the benefits like free insurance, MOT etc.