Rachel Reeves can’t win, can she?

[anothervoter]

After days and days of negative press and chatter about income tax going up, complaints on Mumsnet and across the media, today’s reports are that idea might be dropped and now she’s being accused of rattling the markets and making the cost of borrowing increase.

Honestly, genuine question- what can she do?

You’ve never agreed with me so how would you know?

I agreed with your comment about Margaret Thatcher and the Falklands. And you replied by quibbling about the wording of my agreement.

Other than that, true I am usually guaranteed to not agree with you. Which is good. No point being on the Politics topic just with people who agree with one all the time. Or ever.

I think you’re wrong. I think tax that discourages beneficial behaviours is wrong. But I suspect we will never agree (on this at least!)
oh and it’s not a tax break, it’s double taxation 😉

I think tax that discourages beneficial behaviours is wrong.

I agree. I don’t think these are examples of that, though. The best thing the Chancellor could do to incentivise beneficial behaviour is remove the cliff edges in income tax.

Music to my ears! Sadly, this ain’t going to happen.

It’s very likely that the two child benefit cap is going to be removed. Another huge pay rise for the benefit claimiants.

At this stage the only people still left voting Labour are those on benefits! It's a bribe

Politically that’s a lead balloon. Apart from backbenchers and those that’ll receive it of course.

Overall the optics of doing that and any tax rises will be dire for Labour.

It’s unlikely the women have 3 plus children will be working. If she has girls then it’s likely this pattern will continue. They generally wont be the net contributors of the future.

Giving people more and more benefits to people who cannot afford more children just encourages daft decisions.

So the average birth rate in the UK is 1.4 children, so for the vast majority of mothers (and from own my social circle) it's a maximum of two children. Many might like a third but are financially unable to do so.

Now the majority of these mothers are also working. For them to see women who are not working with three plus children getting child benefits is effectively a slap in the face to those mothers in work.

Me too. I am heartily fed up paying for women who play the system, don’t work because ‘it’s not worth it’ etc.

Both my grown up children work. Yet 1/8 of our young people are not in education or working. Could it be that their parents have shown them it’s just not worth it.

And overall 25% of people class themselves as disabled. These figures are unsustainable.

I think Labour are doing this because they know the more people relying on benefits and not working will vote for Labour to keep their status quo.

The benefits bill is apparently going to go up by £15 billion. How can that be right? We were told there was a black hole in the finances?

I'm finding Alice Through the Looking Glass a useful reference when thinking about the actions of Rachel Reeves.

When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.
[Alice and Humpty Dumpty]

Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said. 'One can't believe impossible things.'
I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
[Alice and the White Queen]

We just need to remember we are in a strange world where nothing is what the government says it is.

Wow. This is bizarre. Increase taxes on middle England and business with one and give away 15 billion to the non working population with the other. This is a real miscalculation.

And yet Reeves will be saying on Wednesday “Let me be perfectly clear…”

Looking at what is likely to happen on Wednesday across a few media outlets it is clear that the people with more that 2 children are likely to do very well. They are also the people who are unlikely to be working.

Where is the sense in this. Yes, I know the birth rate is dropping but rewarding people to have more than two children does not necessarily produce children who will be the tax payers of the future. They will learn from the parent how to make benefits work for them.

Its truly a head in hands moment.

The Labour government need to hang their heads in shame in what they are doing to this country. Shame on them. They cannot grab any money from the benefit claimants after the howls of protest from the backbenchers.

The NHS is in chaos, there is another thread going about how some people would be put off from going to the GP if they had to pay even a small amount.

Its another example of others paying for others. No way should I pay! Other EU countries make this work well. Why on earth are we not looking at them?

It makes me boiling mad.

Unfortunately even if RR wanted to do anything to fix the economy (ie reduce spending. We spend £20billion/month servicing our debt and yet spending by the state is increasing) she wont be allowed to by her MPs and the party members. They are under an ideological spell with no one of any decent calibre to pull them out of it. So that majority won in the last election will destroy the UK.

It will also mean they will never get elected again. Sit tight.

We always say that though. And Labour still get in and shaft the country every time. We never learn.

Honestly they won’t next time, my guess is not for a decade and hopefully more.

Agree. But how much damage will be inflicted on the productivity of the UK in the meantime? I just don’t get it. Removing the 2 child cap will surely just decrease the number of people within those family units in work. At a time when we need more economically active. What’s infuriating is that labour KNOW the benefits bill is unsustainable and that we need more in work. We know that because they tried to reform the system but were pushed to back down by an ideological back bench.
It’s a tax on aspiration. We’ve tried the carrot - now we need the stick.
I didn’t vote labour this time. If they go ahead with these proposals I will vote anything but them for the rest of my days.

I don't think it's so much of an ideological spell but more a case of self interest to be re elected by those back bench MPs.

They were elected on the promise and to be fair their own personal belief
that the Government should be spending more money on welfare, healthcare, education etc etc but without a clue on where the money will come from.

They have reverted to let's tax the rich more let's tax the wealthy more, let's tax private schools, let's tax the non doms etc etc. Unfortunately this has just led to a reduction in economic growth and lower tax revenues. Their proposed cure is to simply increase taxes even more.

Before the 2024 general election, Sunak warned that a vote for Reform would risk a Labour super majority. It’s what happened. Labour received fewer votes in 2024 compared to 2019, but they doubled their seats on a low turnout.

Some working couples can’t afford to have children. So, what’s Labour doing about it - lifting the two child benefit cap so those couples who are not working can have more children and benefits.

Last year, it was make the employers pay more to employ people. The outcome was increased unemployment.

This year, it’s taxes the workers more to provide more funds for those on benefits!

I am wondering - bar the people who have more than 2 children. Does anyone think this is a good thing to implement.

I genuinely dont understand why they are doing this but do see the back benchers in areas where they do have more than 2 children keeping an eye on the next election or even the May elections to ensure they keep their seats.

It is very dangerous to have people not working or very reliant on benefits voting in policies that benefit them but need other people to pay for them.

I have seen on many threads over the years people wanting the very rich to pay for their choices but they are leaving in their droves, others who dont think Amazon and such like pay enough tax - dont they realise that if Amazon have other taxes to pay prices will go up for THEM!

Even the Business Secretary this morning on Sky said he was worried about the wealth creators moving out of the UK. Not the SHADOW BS - the one currently in government

The VAT increase on private schools was a shocker. Has it made a difference at all bar making some people come back into the state system and making big classes even bigger.

@PropertyD

About 11,000 millionaires left the UK in 2024. The estimate for 2025 is 16,500.

Even Tony Blair advised against increasing taxes on the wealthy as they are paying the biggest % to begin with.

So going well then!! None of the Cabinet have ever run a company or employed people have they?

Any old fool can see that you make it an uncomfortable place for wealthy people and they will move - maybe not forever but all that spending power will go. I really do despair.

I hope that Reeves gets slaughtered on Wednesday and that the country rises up against what she is trying to do.