The Fabian Society

[Nolletimiere]

Is the UK electorate aware that they voted for a Labour government, behind which, is a left wing think tank called The Fabian Society?

TFS advocates gradualist, reformist and democratic means in a journey towards radical ends.

The Fabian Society’s objectives for the rest of the parliament are to:

1. Support the Labour party to win the next general election and return to government
2. Secure the adoption of transformative Fabian policy proposals in the next UK Labour manifesto and in policy platforms at every level
3. Help to build a strong, united and diverse Labour movement
4. Strengthen the capabilities, activism and reach of the society

I strongly suggest that people seek to understand the real influence that TFS has on this Labour government - it provides an explanation for the last 15 months.

Me? Ok you've jumped the shark now!

No. And technically they don't claim to be. Here is article 1 of the PRC constitution.

Article 1 The People’s Republic of China is a socialist state governed by a people’s democratic dictatorship that is led by the working class and based on an alliance of workers and peasants.
The socialist system is the fundamental system of the People’s Republic of China. Leadership by the Communist Party of China is the defining feature of socialism with Chinese characteristics. It is prohibited for any organization or individual to damage the socialist system.

It's more of an authoritarian dictatorship with state capitalism though.

So, do you agree with my premise and my reasoning, that every UK politician has a bit of "left" in them ?

Article 1 is a total word salad. :-D

“democratic dictatorship”. LOL

Communist Party says we are Socialists. Love it. That did put a smile on my face.

I’m not sure what ‘a bit of left in them’ means. Define what having a bit of left in them means?

I thought I had explained left. It's state ownership of the means of the means of production. State of course meaning the proletariat, the workers.

Do you agree with that definition ?

And do you agree full socialism is full state ownership of the means of production, and that partial socialism, is the state having partial ownership ?

Do I agree with the definition? It sounds like it comes out of a textbook; so probably yes.

I think there are non socialist reasons for the state to own certain things. Such as security of production, security of critical national infrastructure. So no I don’t think believing in some state ownership necessarily makes you a bit left leaning.

Tbh this response says more about you, your lack of reading comprehension and lack of understanding of simple political terms.

Look at the history of them. I’m a member.

Shock Horror, evil communists.

They were a bunch of radical intellectuals when they were first set up who wanted to improve society. Scary eh?🙄

Mia culpa! I clearly lack the political intelligence to understand the subtleties and nuances of ‘democratic dictatorships’.

Oh my sides! :-D

This.

Wasn't William Morris a member?

It's mea culpa

No textbook, it came out my head.

So you agree with the definition, and then immediately contradict it.

"I think there are non socialist reasons for the state to own certain things. "

I think that statement you wrote does mean you do have a wee bit of socialism about you.

Oops!

Clearly you were misunderstanding something back there.

He was definitely a socialist. Not a Fabian, and not a communist afaik. More of an activist than the Fabians were I think.

Think what you like. But China IS a communist country, and The Fabians are not a knitting circle.

Have a lovely day.

You will probably struggle to find any reference to communism in any recent PRC state publications. They have recently started their latest 5 year plan, and I have not found any yet.

And that sort of makes their claim to be socialist as per Marxism a bit pointless, given how socialism is seen as a step towards Marxism.

I thought they were a democratic dictatorship?

That's what their constitutions says.

Constitutions do tend to say more than one thing.

Note article 6:

Article 6 The foundation of the socialist economic system of the People’s Republic of China is socialist public ownership of the means of production, that is, ownership by the whole people and collective ownership by the working people. The system of socialist public ownership has eradicated the system of exploitation of man by man, and practices the principle of “from each according to his ability, to each according to his work.”
In the primary stage of socialism, the state shall uphold a fundamental economic system under which public ownership is the mainstay and diverse forms of ownership develop together, and shall uphold an income distribution system under which distribution according to work is the mainstay, while multiple forms of distribution exist alongside it.

So if anyone agrees with public ownership of any means of production, then they share socialist doctrine.

Article 6 is more word salad.

Yeah I just don’t agree with you that ANY form of state ownership is adopting socialist doctrine.

This thread has me in hysterics… posters not understanding the difference between socialism and communism..you lose legitimacy in your arguments when you do that.

Communism and Socialism are similar and on the same broad ideological path. Sure one may be a rifle and the other a shotgun. But they both kill people. As for the Fabians. They are a wolf in sheep's clothing. And guess what; that’s their logo!

You’re not helping your case here 😂

It's not word salad just because you don't understand it!