Why don’t Labour get it?

[MincePiesAndStilton]

Discussing with DH yesterday about the general state the country is in. Am I being daft, or is it not that hard to fix?

• Cut welfare spending. The country can’t afford it and the current system doesn’t promote independent living. Financial support for those who need it, practical support to get those who can work, doing so e.g. young people
• Get building. We are desperately in need of new infrastructure in this country. Bridges, roads, prisons, schools and hospitals to name but a few. Doing this creates jobs and economic stimulation, see point 1. Get building = get the economy moving.
• Invest in public services - stop playing the “fiscal rules” card and start making sure there are plenty of good quality jobs to tax people at a reasonable level at. See point 1 again. Things like oh I don’t know, the Police, Prisons and Border Force to keep the country safe and make it less attractive to those who want to come here and do harm. And before anyone jumps on me, no - I’m not anti immigrants, anti asylum seekers or anything else. Some people need our help. Some people want to come here and sexually assault women and children. Those two sets of people need treating very differently.

Instead, what we’re going to get is more tax rises, fewer services, more welfare and no progress on immigration. That will let Reform in through the back door and then we’re in real trouble.

What am I missing?

I do think logically. That’s why I will never, ever vote Labour, and will be glad to see them gone come the next election.

@TwistyTurnip whoever you vote for the fact remains we have an ageing population and that it costs.

Oh here we go again. Target pensioners again. If it wasn’t for pensioners a lot of places wouldn’t survive. Garden centres, National trust etc, holiday cottages, cafes and shops. (Google grey economy). They easily put their pensions back into the economy.

I do think logically.

Your responses on this thread demonstrate that....

What proportion of income tax do you think comes from the top 10% of earners? What do you think the right proportion should be?

Imagine a society where the working generation could afford to have some disposable income as opposed to facing the highest tax burden since WW2, and barely being able to afford to live.

I think it should be a lot higher. We shouldn’t have billionaires and millionaires when working people cannot afford to live.

Target pensioners again.

The triple lock was a good policy when introduced but it should be paused now. Regardless of what pensioner spend in garden centres.

The trouble is people are not being incentivised to work hard and do well. I'm disabled but work two jobs. I get taxed to death to pay for benefits for people less ill than me. We're not eligible for anything other than PIP because DH has a professional salary. I'm funding benefits for others and a pension for others that I will never live to see.

There is an entitlement in many young people that simply didn't exist when I was growing up. We expected to have to work hard to have nice things. We expected to have to work in jobs we didn't like so we could climb the ladder. We didn't get to say we were too 'anxious' or 'depressed' to go to work.

My parents spent their first married years living with my granny because they were waiting for a council house. We do need to build more affordable housing stock which can't pass into private hands!

Pensioners were the working generation for years. They had their time of penny pinching and hard work. Were probably less entitled too. I think about my parents who had one holiday a year - never abroad - both worked. We weren’t well off. They deserve a nice retirement.

I don’t think it’s entitled to want to be able to afford a house when working full time.

house prices used to be 3 times the average salary. They’re now ten and a half times. Wages have not caught up, nor will they ever. I’d say it’s entitled to expect the working generation to pay for your retirement because you didn’t bother to save.

The scales have finally fallen and now the envy is clear to see…

These pensioners have worked hard for everything they have. People like my dad, a joiner who owns his own building firm and worked a manual job in all weathers for almost 50 years. I can count the number of days he's taken off sick on one hand.

It’s easy to sneer. But just remember that one day, you will be a pensioner and so will any children you have.

It’s hilarious how much contempt some people have for the younger generations. We’re the ones working to pay for your retirements and you hate us for daring to want better for ourselves.

This thread like every thread about the topic proves exactly why all governments have not done anything about the changing demographics. The vast majority of the public do not want to hear it. Teresa Mays suggestion around care costs was quite good imo but it was dubbed the dementia tax. That was almost a decade ago.

Jean-Claude Junker put it best: politicians the world over know what needs to be done, just not how to get re-elected having done it

Yep

My parents spent their first married years living with my granny because they were waiting for a council house.

And you think todays young people would not do this? How old were your parents then?

You are talking rubbish. Nobody has contempt for the younger generation. They are our children or grandchildren and we want them to succeed and do what we can to help them out financially and with childcare.

Well you needn’t worry, because all those billionaires and millionaires are leaving the Uk in their droves thanks to Labour - along with all the jobs and investment they bring with them…

Read this thread. They do.

But just remember that one day, you will be a pensioner and so will any children you have.

I won't be a pensioner at the same age though and my dc will be older than that. There will not be a triple lock when i'm retired or winter fuel. AA may even be means tested then. Let's not pretend life for future pensioners will be anything like it currently is.

But this has been disproven multiple times.

It’s unlikely that the state pension will even be a thing when I hit retirement age. The age to get my occupational
and private pensions will be a lot higher than it is now. But I must sit tight and watch it all happen with a smile on my face because pensioners deserve their state benefits!

It also makes me laugh that the example for struggling was “we didn’t go on holidays abroad”, meanwhile most working families will have to choose between food and heating this winter.

I agree with you. It would have negative knock on effects - also increase the cost burden on the NHS and social care. And means testing is expensive to administer too. I think that if a large overall saving could be made, the triple lock would already be gone.

Welfare spending is about a quarter of government spending.

of welfare spending, about half is pensioners.

it is possible to reduce that - the government have over the last twenty years raised the pension ages. But it’s not easy - see the winter fuel payment fiasco - and realistically any government that messes with state pensions will lose the next election.

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/what-does-government-spend-money

But how much higher? It’s 60% now. 70? 80? 90? If you want to make the country’s fate massively dependent on the whims of the rich then that’s the way to do it.

Countries have tried getting rid of their millionaires and billionaires and it’s usually ended up in strife. And the already poor get poorer.

Also how many people in the UK do you think cannot afford to live? UK national minimum wage is a global top 15% ish income, even after accounting for higher costs.