Why don’t Labour get it?

[MincePiesAndStilton]

Discussing with DH yesterday about the general state the country is in. Am I being daft, or is it not that hard to fix?

• Cut welfare spending. The country can’t afford it and the current system doesn’t promote independent living. Financial support for those who need it, practical support to get those who can work, doing so e.g. young people
• Get building. We are desperately in need of new infrastructure in this country. Bridges, roads, prisons, schools and hospitals to name but a few. Doing this creates jobs and economic stimulation, see point 1. Get building = get the economy moving.
• Invest in public services - stop playing the “fiscal rules” card and start making sure there are plenty of good quality jobs to tax people at a reasonable level at. See point 1 again. Things like oh I don’t know, the Police, Prisons and Border Force to keep the country safe and make it less attractive to those who want to come here and do harm. And before anyone jumps on me, no - I’m not anti immigrants, anti asylum seekers or anything else. Some people need our help. Some people want to come here and sexually assault women and children. Those two sets of people need treating very differently.

Instead, what we’re going to get is more tax rises, fewer services, more welfare and no progress on immigration. That will let Reform in through the back door and then we’re in real trouble.

What am I missing?

The one thing they could do to solve some of the issues is cutting the triple lock for state pensions.

Pause it for a few years and put the money into infrastructure. A lot of the public won't tolerate it though.

We should tax everyone the same.
Tax free £17500 a year then 30% on all income - wages, pensions rents, dividends, interest on bank accounts, and all state benefits.
Can't say it's not fair when we all pay the same rate.

It’s not a state benefit. They worked and paid into it their whole lives.

It is a benefit & the issue is it's paid forward. When the demographics change it doesn't work. We already have more over 65 yr olds than under 15 yr olds, just think logically about it.

They worked and paid into it their whole lives.

The issue is we haven't paid anywhere near enough tax for the NHS model and state pension.

Well no, that’s not fair. 30% to minimum wage workers represents a much larger percentage of their spending power than the highest earners.

And stop giving state pension credits to working age benefit claimants - you don't work then you don't get.

That would impact a lot of current pensioners

To dismiss pensioners as burdens is not just economically illiterate, it’s morally bankrupt.

They are not a burden, it's economically illiterate to recognise that changing demographics makes the current model unsustainable. It's morally bankrupt to keep increasing the burden on young people & expecting them to pay more for things that will never see...

So?
Education and opportunity is avaliable to everyone in this country at all ages.
It's not the doctors fault that the shelf stacker preferred relaxing, hobbies and socialising to studying for a better paid job.

The pension isn’t charity. It’s a social contract. Breaking it reveals more about your contempt for working people than any manifesto ever could.

You don't think the social
contract for hoping people is broken?!

As if they could do this! Everyone lost their shit when they tried to means test the winter fuel allowance. It was made crystal clear that pensioners are untouchable, so the rest of us are going to have to work harder, retire later & pay more tax to fund them.

Without that shelf stacker you won’t be able to purchase anything in the shops

This is the DH you despise and you’re leaving him @MincePiesAndStilton ?

It's not the doctors fault that the shelf stacker preferred relaxing, hobbies and socialising to studying for a better paid job.

We need shelf stackers and doctors so advising everyone to be a doctor is pointless.

In which case you shouldn’t be discussing politics!!

Totally agree on the pensions point! Completely unsustainable and a huge number of people receiving this are sitting on mountains of equity in property, savings or private pensions. Will get round to reading all the replies - interesting discussion! Thanks Mumsnetters 💐

Now, the typical pensioner household is likely to have higher living standards than a working-age family. And the poorest fifth of pensioner households are better off than the poorest fifth of working-age families.

This isn't sustainable

It’s absolutely awful, isn’t it? The way a lot of pensioners act is the snatching of the ladder behind them.

They benefitted from lower costs of living and low property prices. But now they face paying a fair share, they revolt. The number of pensioners who sit in huge houses, saying they can’t afford to heat and run them, but refuse to downsize because they want to pass it on, is staggering. Why should the taxpayers sustain people’s inheritances?!

A minimum wage shelf stacker working 40 hours a week takes home £1753 nett pay a month currently - under my scheme he'd take home £1777. He's actually very slightly better off so I don't see a problem.

NI? Pension? Possible student loan?

@HeavenInMyHeart I don't think we should demonise pensioners but it is frustrating that so many don't seem to understand the economic realities. Just mentioning that we have an ageing population and that it costs results in cries of ageism.

Why should the taxpayers sustain people’s inheritances?!

They shouldn't obviously.

By equity in property you mean second homes, portfolios- not a pensioners primary residence I take it.
Hardly fair to say to the home owner you can live off the money in your home but continue to fund the rent for those who spent their money rather than saving and buying a home.

No AI needed to spot the arrogance in pretending pensioners haven’t earned their dues through decades of NI contributions. The pension’s not a gift, it’s payback. Try again 😊

This is the issue. It’s not “demonising” them to point out the genuine issues that exist in this country. Last year when they tried to means test the WFA you had swathes of people sat in million pound plus houses complaining that without it, they couldn’t afford to heat their homes.

so downsize. Much the same as any working family would do if they couldn’t afford to run their household.

No AI needed to spot the arrogance in pretending pensioners haven’t earned their dues through decades of NI contributions. The pension’s not a gift, it’s payback

@TwistyTurnip think logically about it & perhaps read about how pensions are funded.

As yes, because us younguns just spend spend spend!! Nothing to do with the baby boomer generation hoarding property and wealth