Why have the British lost confidence in their nation to the extent that Remainers wish to join a European Union instead of being confident in independence?

[Libra1509]

The powerful Victorians would never have tolerated this! Why can’t Brits be like Victorians?

A lot's changed since Victorian times. Much of it for the better.

I don’t quite understand the question and I’ve read it 3 times, do you mean why do some people want to rejoin the EU? And what’s that got to do with the Victorians? I’m lost

Because we can see that large trading bodies do better than small ones?

because the Victorians actually had a large trading body - albeit based on slavery and violence ? and the EU seems somehow nicer than that?

but back at you - why don’t you have confidence that we can negotiate our own way inside the EU? Why do you assume we are so pathetic that it would be against our interests ?

The Victorians would never have tolerated any nonsense from any European country or the USA or China or Russia and would’ve used extreme force and power to deal with them all. Yet modern Brits want to act more meek.

Oh those halcyon days of children climbing chimneys, women not being able to vote or own property and the poor being chucked into workhouses? Truly the good old days.

We live in a different world, Britannia no longer rules the waves, and we need allies with similar values. I'd be very happy to be part of Europe again.

But - I suspect this is just posting to get a reaction, surely you don't actually believe what you've posted there?

Because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. All the new rules around travel are just a small part of it.

Just curious – and I really want to know this – if Britain was still the most powerful country in the world would you think that it would need to be in something like the European Union or not or is that only because it’s not the most powerful country in the world anymore?

Well I ain’t for violence that’s true - that to me is mentally weak

Brexit has made us poorer and increased bureaucracy. However it’s a perfectly legitimate position, not that I agree, to say this is a price worth paying for independence, sovereignty etc. The only tangible benefit was the earlier rollout of Covid vaccine. If still in the EU we could still have done this but in reality probably wouldn’t have.

But that’s the point. The powerful Victorians would have exerted sufficient pressure to bring the European Union to heel.

You'd rather be swallowed by America?

The Victorians forced the USA to back down in the 1861 Trent Affair and forced them to sign unfavourable trade deals which benefited Britain. So no.

Agree. Children back up chimneys.

You seem to be confused about the difference between the past and the present.

To be powerful ( why does powerful matter?) you need to be big OR you need to be clever

being clever is probably better - and being clever means in this world having the right type of alliances

i don’t see powerful as a good aim though - I don’t see why I should put myself above others. I have not got that kind of arrogance . I see wanting to be strong and powerful as the sign of weakness - a weak position needs force to hold. A clever one is strong

But why should Britain be the most powerful country in the world? Why should any country be? Why wouldn't we want to be part of a world where every country had equal power and countries worked to negotiate agreement?

And if you do believe Britain should be Top Dog again, how would you make that happen? When we have a tiny fraction of the population and resources of America,China and Russia?

Britain benefitted from being at the forefront of the industrial revolution. We aren't at the forefront of anything now.

Maybe Britain shouldn’t have allowed the rest of the world to steal and copy it industrial revolution then it would still have such a technological advantage over the rest of the world.

Hilarious op. Are you on a break between your lessons at school? Hope you have done your homework.

I agree!!!
Bring back child poverty, oh hang on we already are.

What are you on about?

The British Empire is long, long gone (thank goodness) along with the other horrific empires of Europe. Britain is no longer a big dog, sadly many people still think we are which is partially why we ended up voting Leave. Funnily enough the very act of leaving the EU has made us even less of a big dog thank you Leavers.

That's why we're not bringing other countries "to heel".

The Op has started a couple of similar threads.

I assume somebody's teacher has posed an essay question on the impact of losing an empire or similar.

I've read some ignorant tripe on here but this must be up there with the best. Human history has shown that collaboration generally works better than confrontation.

I don't know if you meant it like this but your post literally made me LOL.

Was Britain ever the most powerful country in the world? I've heard French people say the same about their country.

Being part of the EU is not being meek.
I’m in the process of getting Irish passports for me and my kids. This will allow us freedom to move and work within the EU. How is that being meek? Plus we have to follow some EU regulations anyway.
And comparing now to Victorian times is just ridiculous. The world is not like it was then. Plus would you want women to be treated the same way as they were then?