Why have the British lost confidence in their nation to the extent that Remainers wish to join a European Union instead of being confident in independence?

[Libra1509]

The powerful Victorians would never have tolerated this! Why can’t Brits be like Victorians?

The Roman Empire was much better. I think go back to it instead.

The majority who voted in the referdum voted to give up the benefits of being in the EU, so can't complain when we are treated the same as other non members.

The OP seems to have a particularly loud and buzzy bee in his/her bonnet about bully boy economics. See also the only other thread posted by this user.

And no, I didn’t have to look it up. The faux-naivety, preoccupation with power and domination, nostalgia for the halcyon days of the British Empire and keeping Johnny Foreigner down are hilariously consistent throughout.

I’m not actually convinced it is a schoolchild. I think it may just be an adult who hasn’t travelled or thought much and has a caveman take on international politics.

What, the Victorians who backed out of the US civil war when British envoys were taken hostage, yielded when the Russians reentered the Black Sea, gave up Oregon territory to the US rather than fight, and put its forces in China under US command in multilateral coalition?

Who also consolidated the internal market, replaced local money with a central one, aligned to a single time zone, standardised weights and measures, eschewed local identities and language in favour of a powerful centre to address common problems and compete on the global stage?

Sure (if it were possible) but then they would be massively poorer and therefore so would we be. Who would buy our products if we were the only rich country? And where would we outsource the low-value unpleasant production if no one else had industrialised? And if you think illegal migration is a problem now, what do you think it would be like if the quality of life difference were that much starker.

Trying to be the only industrialised nation is basically aiming for autarchy. Pretty much the only country clinging to that is DPRK and it’s not worked out too well for them.

Because I like to collaborate with Europe. I don't see collaboration as coming from meekness or lack of confidence.

What utterly and moronically simplistic thinking op.

I mean if we’d had a vote to join / leave any union in “Victorian times” only a very small percentage of the population could have voted.

And Britain’s strength and wealth was built on the backs of many exploited people, here and in the empire. Is that what you’d like to go back to?

Because we seem unable to elect a competent government.

The bunch of idiots in charge now, are even worse than the bunch of idiots in charge last spring.

Are you prepared to volunteer as cannon fodder? No? Thought not.
The Victorians also sent small children up chimneys and down mines.
What a ridiculous premise.

It's better to be part of a large trading block. Britain no longer has the British Empire which was our trading block in the 19th century.

We lost a lot when we came out of Europe and have gained nothing but problems.

What did the Romans ever do for us? ……

Didn't you start a thread on how you want a foreign nation to interfere with UK' government and politics? @Libra1509

How does that sit with independence?

Or should we ask the Victorians?

I can't decide whether the OP is actually serious, or just taking the piss to make Brexit-voters look utterly stupid bad.

Rotten Romans

Vile Victorians

HH

Yep put me down for the reinstatement of the Roman Empire
I love a sauna

Yet another Nigel Faragey thread. His press office must have an entire mumsnet division.

Are you suggesting that we declare war on Europe? 🤨

The Victorians didn't, for a minute think they could don't alone, they had the Empire. All successful civilisations have done it with the helpnof numerous other territories and immigration.

The EU was/is a more democratic way to have trade alliances is all.

The Victorians used children as slave labour and locked women who wanted a divorce up in lunatic asylums.

I'm not sure their judgement was all that great TBH.

In case you haven't noticed OP, the world is very different than it was 150 years ago.

Even the most powerful countries need friends, allies and trading partners - even yours (Russia??)

If people in the UK want to re-join the EU it's because they think that we are disadvantaged by being outside it. They consider themselves realists rather than idealists.

Ahaha this made me laugh 😆

I think the proles are less keen to end up as cannon fodder.

But I do agree that we've had very weak leadership that doesn't advocate our interests well and if you're at the top of the heap you won't notice it and can easily dismiss it. The divisions within our society make us difficult to lead (rather like political parties infighting, indecisive and ineffectual). That's noticeable in many countries, but hey that's democracy.

Historically war against a common enemy is quite a unifying goal......will also reduce overpopulation, unfortunately it usually takes the youngest & fittest. Lots of people (though not seemingly enough) think it would be better to find another way.

Yeah but the cuisine! Italian food has improved dramatically.

We still exploit people. That's not changed.