What can an individual do to keep Reform out?

[Thepoliticsofchaos]

I have a young friend (a university student) who is getting depressed about the prospect of Reform getting in next election. He thinks that the UK is fucked, basically. He's left-leaning, I assume a Labour voter. I've advised him to get politically engaged (so that in the future he'll at least be able to feel that he did what he could). He's not the most outgoing of people, though is interested in politics. Can anyone suggest how he could become usefully politically engaged to try to reduce the Reform vote? Not just joining a party and turning up to meetings, but actually doing something?

Wet wipe

Fascists. Like the Far Left Antifa?

Are you Trump? 😂

“When people say stupid things like Labour are destroying the economy…”

Seriously????

Maybe tell him not to call people thick gammons, or shout and swear, that is usually what the left do,

Reform. As you know.

And the far right just beat people up, rape them, and hold violent drunken piss-ups "protests".

I'm considering joining the Labour party. Not because they are great per se, but they are the main obstacle to reform winning elections now, and in government have power to offer the angry and dispossessed something better.

Once he gets into the real world and starts working all hours, then he may have a clearer idea of what he really believes in. The majority of uni students are left wing. They have yet to have had the majority of their income taken away in taxes.

Far Left and Far Right tend to be pretty indistinguishable when you dig down. The circle joins at extreme ends.
Same sort of people are attracted to both, same hate for everyone else etc.
Yet the Far Left labour under the delusion that they are the fair minded ones.

No. I don't "know" actually. I can't read your mind. I don't know you.

Reform are not facists. They are a democratic party seeking election to form a government within a democracy.

Islamists are facists. They are a totalitarian ideology that seeks to establish a Muslim state often by use of terrorism.

So when you say that "London needs a party that's not afraid to stand up to the facists" logically you mean a party that can stand up to the Islamists. Assuming you are using facts in your assertions.

Reform are Fascists, trying to use the democratic process to get into power. Trump used the democratic process (in his own, corrupt way) and is now trying to take it away entirely - hence the No Kings protest due to happen this month.

Farage loves Trump, and Farage wants to replicate what Trump is doing over here. Farage has said he admires both Trump and Putin the most - both authoritarian dictators of their own respective countries. Both rule with control, violence, fear and misinformation.

Farage is desperate to have his own little tin pot dictatorship over here and be like the big boys. I'm sure he's feeling very left out at the moment.

BTW: Farage is a hypocrite, campaigned against Brexit while being IN the EU as an MEP, doing zero work as an MEP and taking a nice fat salary by the way, and a nice fat pension.

You can claim "democratic" all you like but they are not democratic. Have you never thought to ask yourself why is Reform structured like a COMPANY and not a political party? Is that because they can better hide their finances (russian bribes) and who really is behind their scenes, who is pulling the strings? They are actually structured like a murky chain of companies - not like a political party, which I would presume would have to be more transparent. Why is that (and how is it legal anyway)?

Perhaps you should look at the facts yourself before blindly parroting what Reform has told you to parrot.

BTW Which Islamists are you talking about by the way? Is there a political party?

This is completely true. In their defence, Labour were left with a mess but have managed to make a bigger mess of everything going forward which had sadly paved the way for Reform to get votes from people who previously wouldn't entertain them. The only way for your friend to try and help would be as previous posters have mentioned, use yiur own vote or help a candidate with publicity and canvassing.

Your post is a bit odd and emotional so there isn't really a coherent argument to reply to?

Show him this thread - it's a great illustration of what NOT to do to win people over to your political cause.

• Call people who disagree with you fascists
• Call people who disagree with you Trump
• Post stupid memes in response to serious points of view
• Tell those you disagree with that there's no point campaigning as they've already made up their minds 4 years out.
• Spend all day on social media liking & re-posting and becoming obsessed with politics

To be honest, I think we have made politicians feature far too heavily in our lives. The difference between most governments (as we have learned from the past year) is paper thin. We have plenty of autonomy and plenty of ways we can make our patch of the world better without getting obsessed with party politics. What does your young person like? Does he like art, sport, train spotting, Victorian poetry, potholing - focus on doing good things in those areas and living his political values and making change that way.

It was already destroyed. They’ve been in power for a year. The sums do not add up, and the fundamentals are almost impossible. Brexit didn’t help. Covid didn’t help. Putin, Trump, Truss, the financial crisis - it’s been one body blow after another. In getting into government, Labour have done the equivalent of buying a money pit. The Conservatives knew they were going to lose the election, so kept running the spending into the ground. The decisions taken by Hunt just before the election were very political.

Which is not to say the national insurance / farm thing wasn’t a dreadful own goal. But they are trying to free up money which isn’t there to free up. Unless there is growth, which is stubbornly sluggish.

It doesn’t look remotely odd to me. These things are pretty well-evidenced.

Fake post

You just don't have an answer to my points, that's all.

I would suggest to this young man that he make friends with people from a variety of political persuasions, ideally through some sort of non-political activity such as a sports club, and get to know them on a human level and what their concerns are. Focus on listening rather than speaking.

This might help with the existential angst about being secretly surrounded by blackshirts or whatever he thinks is happening. If in 4 years he decides he wants to go door-knocking or something for Labour, he will have a better idea of what his opponents believe and value, and what might convince people on the fence to switch over.

It is. And this thread re a student not able to look at what’s available already.

Perhaps you could tell him that by being hyperbolic about Reform he may in fact be making things worse.

Very much like the boy who cried wolf, Reform have been called 'far right' and 'fascist' so much that when the big bad does inevitably come along people will be completely desensitised.

I am no fan of Reform (immigrant) but i am also not stupid. I can see exactly why they are getting in. It is not far right to have an immigration system and borders that actually work, pretending that it is is going to cost the UK dearly.

When you call people something for long enough, for perfectly central and reasonable views, they will eventually shrug their shoulders and assume those words mean nothing. Then when we cry those words out as a warning when it is real, no one will listen.

He could help by turning the heat down in politics and campaigning for the current government, who could actually do something about it, to do so.

I actually think Jeremy Hunt and Sunak were slowly turning things around.

Reeves has made things infinitely worse, that’s not just my opinion. She’s out of her depth, a Chancellor in a party with a tax and spend ideology who told the electorate she wouldn’t raise any of the taxes which would allow her to spend. She has boxed herself into a corner unnecessarily. The economy is flatlining now because of choices Labour has made.

Starmer made the mistake of thinking growth in the economy would come from two things: the Labour Party simply just being in power and saying the word growth repeatedly during the election campaign.

He should do what he can to make where he is a bit nicer. Pick up a bit of litter when he’s out, volunteer to help people improve their conversational English, help out at the foodbank or homeless shelter.
Extreme ideologies thrive when people feel dissatisfied and disconnected.
Making all kinds of people feel welcomed, included, and part of a community reduces xenophobia and bigotry because it’s hard to hate someone once you acknowledge that they are a human being.
I’ve had some success drawing a few people back to the centre ground, not by cleverly demolishing their fact-free rhetoric, but by sitting with them, listening to them, then gently encouraging them to think what they would do if they were in the position of whoever they’re currently demonising.
It takes a lot of patience and tenacity, but is much more successful than shouting them down.

100%, am also an immigrant, centre-right politically. I know so many people who just outright celebrate being called fascist because it's almost the sign of being a free thinker or something, similar to bonding over being cancelled. They have milquetoast views like "borders should exist" but the more that gets grouped with true fascism, the more people will shrug and go along with it.

As a legal taxpaying immigrant I want people to have high trust in the immigration system and to have confidence that the people who come here are contributing and are safe.

Reform are currently quite poorly organised and lacking key talent necessary to run an actual government. If the electorate saw concrete results (not promises) from the current government this would significantly dilute the threat.