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Politics

Charlie Kirk's beliefs

1000 replies

MsAmerica · 15/09/2025 02:29

If You're Wondering What Charlie Kirk Believed In, Here Are 14 Real Quotes
In light of his death, Charlie Kirk's legacy is being remembered through these viral quotes.
BuzzFeed

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexalisitza/viral-charlie-kirk-quotes

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14
Underthinker · 17/09/2025 17:33

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 17:27

As you’ll have noted, not a single one of the links I posted was to Reddit. 🙄

Seems to be where the journos have copy and pasted from though.

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 17:52

weearrows · 17/09/2025 17:11

Genuine question for @TheClaaaw - if you were to debate a Charlie Kirk type figure, assuming both parties were debating in good faith, do you think you could find any slither of common ground?

I have several great friends who are polar opposite to me when it comes to politics but I’d say our friendships are richer for it. I see things from a different perspective when talking to them but we also know where the lines are, how not to go so far that it damages the friendship. I love being with people who have a totally different worldview.

I like to hear different perspectives. I could talk to people who feel differently about gun laws and the death penalty and hear why they think that. In the UK, I don't really meet people who support gun ownership, but I have definitely had conversations on the death penalty - it's more common to meet people who agree with it for the most horrifying of crimes; plenty of people will say that eg. the Southport killer should face it for example. I really understand that stance, even though ultimately I would never support the reinstatement of the death penalty here (not out of concern for the lives of criminals like the Southport killer, but because of the people who would inevitably be wrongly executed and because I have a moral objection to killing).

If I was talking to someone who brought up 'prowling blacks' or their view that women should submit to their husbands, I would not love to be in their company. Those aren't interesting debates to have that will make me think about other points of view. Those phrases would tell me I was in the presence of a racist misogynist. Spending time with people who have a different worldview is one thing; spending time with someone that deeply bigoted is another.

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 17:57

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 17:52

I like to hear different perspectives. I could talk to people who feel differently about gun laws and the death penalty and hear why they think that. In the UK, I don't really meet people who support gun ownership, but I have definitely had conversations on the death penalty - it's more common to meet people who agree with it for the most horrifying of crimes; plenty of people will say that eg. the Southport killer should face it for example. I really understand that stance, even though ultimately I would never support the reinstatement of the death penalty here (not out of concern for the lives of criminals like the Southport killer, but because of the people who would inevitably be wrongly executed and because I have a moral objection to killing).

If I was talking to someone who brought up 'prowling blacks' or their view that women should submit to their husbands, I would not love to be in their company. Those aren't interesting debates to have that will make me think about other points of view. Those phrases would tell me I was in the presence of a racist misogynist. Spending time with people who have a different worldview is one thing; spending time with someone that deeply bigoted is another.

I still struggle that everyone is getting worked up about the submitting to their husbands bit. It honestly just sounded like a division of responsibility to me cloaked in rather effusive language. Wouldn’t work for me as I like to do the finances but ultimately if his wife was happy with it who am I to judge what made their marriage happy? They even acknowledged it could work the other way but thought it was unusual. I think they would acknowledge also it wouldn’t work for everyone, they just thought it was a good idea. I doubt very much it was something he would inpose on anyone. If he’d said to me in a debate, I’d just go ‘well if it works for you’ and that would be that.

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 17:58

weearrows · 17/09/2025 17:11

Genuine question for @TheClaaaw - if you were to debate a Charlie Kirk type figure, assuming both parties were debating in good faith, do you think you could find any slither of common ground?

I have several great friends who are polar opposite to me when it comes to politics but I’d say our friendships are richer for it. I see things from a different perspective when talking to them but we also know where the lines are, how not to go so far that it damages the friendship. I love being with people who have a totally different worldview.

If discussion is held in good faith (not the kind of faith he was in favour of), rational and evidence-based then I think that consensus on most things can be reached. It is extremists who are the danger to this because their aim is to try to prevent such reasonable public discourse.

I believe far more unites people than divides us and that currently there are numerous bad actors deliberately trying to polarise public opinion in democratic countries for their own purposes which will be immensely negative for the huge majority of people.

The problem with anybody trying to “debate” Kirk when he was alive was that it was very transparent that he was not engaging in any real debate at all. This was a performative act and actually an attempt to ridicule and shut down anybody who opposed him with carefully stage managed questions and responses. It was not a genuine “debate” or respectful discussion, it was deliberately divisive and hostile with no intention to actually consider other opinions or wish to have a rational discussion, reach consensus, discuss outcomes or evidence-based policy, hence his repeated attempts to resort to “well it’s what the Bible says!’ whenever it became clear that he had no logical defence for his position and it was self-contradictory.

He deliberately created a hostile and adversarial style of so-called “debate” which was designed to do the precise opposite of objectively examining issues and finding solutions that would be acceptable to all involved. The hallmark of somebody reasonable and objective is being prepared to change their views on things in light of new evidence: the precise opposite of the stance of an extremist religious fanatic who by definition is impervious to data, empirical evidence or logic and - as he declared - in his personal case also any capacity for empathy.

So while I think that in a genuine debate with him, privately, if he’d ever had any inclination to engage in one with me (unlikely) we’d have been able to find common ground, I think that would have been impossible for anybody reasonable to do during his publicly staged pseudo-debates which were designed to serve completely the opposite purpose and in which he expressed extremist, outrageous and appalling views deliberately to cause social division. His disingenuousness in pretending he wanted a conversation/ debate about his views was quite shocking in its brazenness given how obviously false this was.

I think what we need to do is reestablish genuine public debate between people who disagree but are actually reasonable, rational, decent human beings, debate aimed at reaching compromises, establishing a reasonable and sensible consensus that is acceptable to the vast majority of people (while accepting that it won’t perfectly fit anyone’s world view, as the prevailing system never will if you live in a democracy - that’s the price of freedom). I think the vast majority of people are decent people who don’t wish the kinds of harms on society that Mr Kirk did, but feel very insecure at the moment and this manifests as polarisation and extremism and draws them to people like him who are the opposite of the solution.

I think civilised society will disintegrate completely unless this happens and I find it very depressing that there seems to be no sign of this happening. But yes, fundamentally I believe that the interests of the vast majority of society are aligned in most respects and that common ground could be found with a little less anger and a little more listening and willingness to have a rational discussion focused on practical solutions and compromises that would be acceptable to all based on evidence rather than people’s personal anecdotes, refusal to concede on any preference and determination to “other” people and reduce their rights in the hope it will improve their own circumstances: it won’t.

It’s much easier to have such discussions in individual conversations with (reasonable) people than on a societal level, unfortunately, so I hold out little hope that democracy will survive the storm of the second industrial revolution which is headed its way at a much faster pace than many are anticipating, which will manifest in more and more of this extreme rhetoric and more people being sucked in by it even though ultimately its results will make their lives far worse than they would otherwise have been, and accelerate and magnify the problems. But sadly there’s no reasoning with many, as the thread shows.
^^

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:00

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 17:57

I still struggle that everyone is getting worked up about the submitting to their husbands bit. It honestly just sounded like a division of responsibility to me cloaked in rather effusive language. Wouldn’t work for me as I like to do the finances but ultimately if his wife was happy with it who am I to judge what made their marriage happy? They even acknowledged it could work the other way but thought it was unusual. I think they would acknowledge also it wouldn’t work for everyone, they just thought it was a good idea. I doubt very much it was something he would inpose on anyone. If he’d said to me in a debate, I’d just go ‘well if it works for you’ and that would be that.

Again, what he and his wife decided to do in their relationship is their business. He seems to have been rather hypocritical on this matter also (what a shock) given that he espoused all of these “values” and then his own wife had a career. But anyway, that isn’t the point: as has been stated repeatedly, the problem wasn’t how Mr Kirk chose to live his life in his own home. The problem was him trying to enforce his beliefs onto wider society and his attempts to have them enacted in law mandating that everyone else should be forced to follow them.

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:01

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:00

Again, what he and his wife decided to do in their relationship is their business. He seems to have been rather hypocritical on this matter also (what a shock) given that he espoused all of these “values” and then his own wife had a career. But anyway, that isn’t the point: as has been stated repeatedly, the problem wasn’t how Mr Kirk chose to live his life in his own home. The problem was him trying to enforce his beliefs onto wider society and his attempts to have them enacted in law mandating that everyone else should be forced to follow them.

How did he try and get that put into law?

hamstersarse · 17/09/2025 18:01

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 17:57

I still struggle that everyone is getting worked up about the submitting to their husbands bit. It honestly just sounded like a division of responsibility to me cloaked in rather effusive language. Wouldn’t work for me as I like to do the finances but ultimately if his wife was happy with it who am I to judge what made their marriage happy? They even acknowledged it could work the other way but thought it was unusual. I think they would acknowledge also it wouldn’t work for everyone, they just thought it was a good idea. I doubt very much it was something he would inpose on anyone. If he’d said to me in a debate, I’d just go ‘well if it works for you’ and that would be that.

Don't be so sensible fgs

hamstersarse · 17/09/2025 18:04

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:00

Again, what he and his wife decided to do in their relationship is their business. He seems to have been rather hypocritical on this matter also (what a shock) given that he espoused all of these “values” and then his own wife had a career. But anyway, that isn’t the point: as has been stated repeatedly, the problem wasn’t how Mr Kirk chose to live his life in his own home. The problem was him trying to enforce his beliefs onto wider society and his attempts to have them enacted in law mandating that everyone else should be forced to follow them.

Again, you really haven'y listened to what he says properly

His argument was that most mothers are forced to go to work. He would like a world when women could legimately choose to stay at home with kids

Therefore he is not a hypocrite. His wife chose to work. But she didn't have to.

It's really not that hard.

I would say well over 50% of women would agree with this. Being forced to leave your children to go to work is the current scenario. Are you really sure you are happy with this?

(also, I don't know why I bother, I know you won't bother digesting this)

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 18:05

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 17:57

I still struggle that everyone is getting worked up about the submitting to their husbands bit. It honestly just sounded like a division of responsibility to me cloaked in rather effusive language. Wouldn’t work for me as I like to do the finances but ultimately if his wife was happy with it who am I to judge what made their marriage happy? They even acknowledged it could work the other way but thought it was unusual. I think they would acknowledge also it wouldn’t work for everyone, they just thought it was a good idea. I doubt very much it was something he would inpose on anyone. If he’d said to me in a debate, I’d just go ‘well if it works for you’ and that would be that.

He wasn't saying his wife submits to him; he was instructing Taylor Swift (and why he thought she'd care why he thought is a mystery!) to submit to her husband. So yeah, he was trying to impose it on others. And there is no 'division of responsibility' in that phrase - it is setting out the power dynamic in a marriage and giving it all to the husband. No division involved - she submits, he commands.

It's a very extreme stance and you will not find many people in normal circles subscribing to it. If someone at work announces her engagement and a colleague responds with 'submit to your husband' everyone would think that person is insane. No one would go 'oh that's an interesting division of responsibility that probably wouldn't work for me!' They'd say 'Keith, you are a raging misogynist' and report him to HR.

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:08

hamstersarse · 17/09/2025 18:04

Again, you really haven'y listened to what he says properly

His argument was that most mothers are forced to go to work. He would like a world when women could legimately choose to stay at home with kids

Therefore he is not a hypocrite. His wife chose to work. But she didn't have to.

It's really not that hard.

I would say well over 50% of women would agree with this. Being forced to leave your children to go to work is the current scenario. Are you really sure you are happy with this?

(also, I don't know why I bother, I know you won't bother digesting this)

Well that’s what I thought and I thought well if he’s going to try and get into politics and make laws, chances are it would be around better maternity policy in the US (which is basically non existent) so women can choose to be at home with their children longer. Or tax breaks for the partner if the mother chose to stay at home or vice versa

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:09

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 18:05

He wasn't saying his wife submits to him; he was instructing Taylor Swift (and why he thought she'd care why he thought is a mystery!) to submit to her husband. So yeah, he was trying to impose it on others. And there is no 'division of responsibility' in that phrase - it is setting out the power dynamic in a marriage and giving it all to the husband. No division involved - she submits, he commands.

It's a very extreme stance and you will not find many people in normal circles subscribing to it. If someone at work announces her engagement and a colleague responds with 'submit to your husband' everyone would think that person is insane. No one would go 'oh that's an interesting division of responsibility that probably wouldn't work for me!' They'd say 'Keith, you are a raging misogynist' and report him to HR.

So what if it’s consensual? How were they physically forcing TS to do it?

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:13

hamstersarse · 17/09/2025 16:14

Yeah, you definitely don't understand what democracy is.

I'd guess you are still reeling from Brexit

Do elaborate on your assertion that my comment to which you responded indicates that I “don’t understand what democracy is” or why you believe it has anything to do with Brexit.

How ironic that some of those claiming that Kirk has been misrepresented - despite quotes and video clips of the things he said having been provided - are simultaneously making random and bizarre comments trying to attribute things to other posters that have never even been mentioned in their comments, or as far as I am aware, at all in the entire thread.

I suppose it does demonstrate why some of his supporters found his hypocrisy so attractive.

It also makes it very apparent that you are attempting to create further division by throwing in completely unrelated but divisive topics that have nothing to do with this discussion. We see you.

Griffindor1979 · 17/09/2025 18:13

It’s so easy to take a sentence from a whole monalogue and use it to make someone look bad. I’ve watched the majority of his interactions in full. There was NOTHING hateful about him. He was so respectful and encouraged questions and people to keep debating when they didn’t agree. He said when you stop talking, it leads to violence as we lose our humanity. RIP Charlie Kirk.

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:15

Griffindor1979 · 17/09/2025 18:13

It’s so easy to take a sentence from a whole monalogue and use it to make someone look bad. I’ve watched the majority of his interactions in full. There was NOTHING hateful about him. He was so respectful and encouraged questions and people to keep debating when they didn’t agree. He said when you stop talking, it leads to violence as we lose our humanity. RIP Charlie Kirk.

It is quite disturbing if you have actually viewed the videos of the things he said and do not find them to be hateful.

Parker231 · 17/09/2025 18:21

Griffindor1979 · 17/09/2025 18:13

It’s so easy to take a sentence from a whole monalogue and use it to make someone look bad. I’ve watched the majority of his interactions in full. There was NOTHING hateful about him. He was so respectful and encouraged questions and people to keep debating when they didn’t agree. He said when you stop talking, it leads to violence as we lose our humanity. RIP Charlie Kirk.

Nothing hateful about someone who was anti womens rights, anti gay marriage, pro second amendment, anti abortion- what’s pleasant about someone supporting these issues?

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:23

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:01

How did he try and get that put into law?

This has been explained to you multiple times in this now very long thread so I don’t think anybody’s buying your faux innocence about this anymore.

If you’re still confused you can go back and actually read all of the posts on the thread already setting out in detail his activities via which he tried to do exactly that. Or read any number of the reputable news sources including numerous reports from investigative journalists about his political activities with the expressly stated aim of achieving changes to US law to remove freedoms and rights from other people in society, dating back as far as 2017 and even earlier.

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:27

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 16:50

Middle of the road would have had to shift a great deal to have Charlie Kirk fans sitting there.

Anyone actually in the centre - moderate right or left - would be horrified at the 'prowling blacks' and 'submit to your husband' comments he made. Those statements, in the context within which Kirk made them, are currently not mainstream or moderate. No one in the middle of the road actually thinks it's acceptable to use those phrases.

There is a desperate attempt going on at the moment to normalise this kind of abhorrent discourse, and to make extreme ideas seem more widely embraced than they are. But you cannot go into normal spaces - like work or school - and start talking about how prowling blacks are attacking white people for fun. When a female colleague announces her engagement, you can't say 'submit to your husband' in the congratulations card.

These are not normal things to say. Not yet, thank goodness. Kirk was trying very hard to establish them in mainstream discourse, and we are seeing this exhausting wave of posters insisting over and over that it's completely fine, but that's not true. And when people go offline and talk to normal people out there in the world, they do not come across that kind of talk.

If you think 'prowling blacks' and 'submit to your husband' are normal things to say, you are not middle of the road. You are a long way out from the centre and if you say those things out in public, most people will be appalled. Say them in a workplace and see what the consequences are.

Absolutely. Well said.

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:28

TheClaaaw · 17/09/2025 18:23

This has been explained to you multiple times in this now very long thread so I don’t think anybody’s buying your faux innocence about this anymore.

If you’re still confused you can go back and actually read all of the posts on the thread already setting out in detail his activities via which he tried to do exactly that. Or read any number of the reputable news sources including numerous reports from investigative journalists about his political activities with the expressly stated aim of achieving changes to US law to remove freedoms and rights from other people in society, dating back as far as 2017 and even earlier.

Where specifically has he tried to enact putting submission to your husband into law. Link me to the legislation. That’s what I’m asking

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 18:28

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:09

So what if it’s consensual? How were they physically forcing TS to do it?

Don't worry, I don't believe Charlie Kirk was trying to force Taylor Swift, a woman who wouldn't give him the time of day, to submit to her husband. He was making a condescending, sexist dig at a public figure and saying that she should.

I'm not concerned for Taylor here. I'm pretty sure she's fine. I'm pointing out, as you know, that Kirk wasn't just going around saying 'in my marriage my wife submits to me and that works for us both'. He was telling people that's how he thinks the world should work.

And most people find that ridiculous and offensive. Keith isn't going to HR because anyone worried he was going to try and force his colleague to submit to her husband. He's going to HR because he said a grotesquely misogynistic thing that normal people don't say.

PolkaDotPorridge · 17/09/2025 18:34

Griffindor1979 · 17/09/2025 18:13

It’s so easy to take a sentence from a whole monalogue and use it to make someone look bad. I’ve watched the majority of his interactions in full. There was NOTHING hateful about him. He was so respectful and encouraged questions and people to keep debating when they didn’t agree. He said when you stop talking, it leads to violence as we lose our humanity. RIP Charlie Kirk.

If you think there was nothing hateful about him, I pity your family and friends.

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:35

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 18:28

Don't worry, I don't believe Charlie Kirk was trying to force Taylor Swift, a woman who wouldn't give him the time of day, to submit to her husband. He was making a condescending, sexist dig at a public figure and saying that she should.

I'm not concerned for Taylor here. I'm pretty sure she's fine. I'm pointing out, as you know, that Kirk wasn't just going around saying 'in my marriage my wife submits to me and that works for us both'. He was telling people that's how he thinks the world should work.

And most people find that ridiculous and offensive. Keith isn't going to HR because anyone worried he was going to try and force his colleague to submit to her husband. He's going to HR because he said a grotesquely misogynistic thing that normal people don't say.

I honestly think it is a really uncontroversial view sorry. I’ve tried to think shall I get worked up about it? Do I think he’d have a chance to legislate it? Nope. Did it give me passing room for thought. Yep. Do I think it made him a misogynist. Nope.

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 18:44

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:35

I honestly think it is a really uncontroversial view sorry. I’ve tried to think shall I get worked up about it? Do I think he’d have a chance to legislate it? Nope. Did it give me passing room for thought. Yep. Do I think it made him a misogynist. Nope.

Edited

And what do you think would happen in a workplace if someone told their colleague to submit to their husband? What do you think would happen to a teacher who told female students they should submit to future husbands?

Of course you don't think this is a normal, uncontroversial thing to say.

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:47

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 18:44

And what do you think would happen in a workplace if someone told their colleague to submit to their husband? What do you think would happen to a teacher who told female students they should submit to future husbands?

Of course you don't think this is a normal, uncontroversial thing to say.

Why would he say that in a workplace? No evidence he was going around randomly saying that to people he worked with.

But if work colleagues were having a discussion on the subject of marriage and he explained his views and said ‘you should try it you might like it’. I’d expect his colleague to simply say, ‘thanks, but no’.

why would that be a disciplinary offence? I’ve heard colleagues say far worse honestly. And I carried on my day.

CurlewKate · 17/09/2025 18:49

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:28

Where specifically has he tried to enact putting submission to your husband into law. Link me to the legislation. That’s what I’m asking

He hadn’t. However, when a charismatic person with very many followers says something, there are a lot of people who will listen. And views like this are damaging to society in general and women and girls in particular.

CantCallItLove · 17/09/2025 19:35

BananaPeels · 17/09/2025 18:47

Why would he say that in a workplace? No evidence he was going around randomly saying that to people he worked with.

But if work colleagues were having a discussion on the subject of marriage and he explained his views and said ‘you should try it you might like it’. I’d expect his colleague to simply say, ‘thanks, but no’.

why would that be a disciplinary offence? I’ve heard colleagues say far worse honestly. And I carried on my day.

He said it in his workplace (a studio) and not as a suggestion. It was an instruction. Not 'you should try submitting to your husband' (which yeah, would get you a disciplinary!) but 'submit to your husband'.

But I brought the workplace in just as an example of how these views are not widely expressed. You don't hear colleagues say this. You wouldn't hear it in a school assembly. If someone said it in the playground at drop-off, everyone would give the weirdo a wide berth.

It is not a normal, mainstream opinion. Telling women to submit to their husbands is not acceptable. You do know this, and so does everyone else.

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