This migrant problem is going to let Reform in isn’t it?

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

Honestly it’s such a bloody nightmare. Reform are making a total hash of local government from what I’ve read, putting teenagers in charge of whole departments with no relevant experience. What are they going to do if they are elected to run a country!!!! I’m honestly terrified. Labour need to be seen to be actively doing something to quell the far-right momentum that’s gaining traction from ordinary folk. I’m amazed at the average, usually pretty sensible people around me who are now telling me they are going to vote Reform.

there was an interview I saw yesterday where the minister said that thousands of people were being deported regularly. The interviewer asked why there were no videos of this and she said there could be. Well let’s see it! It would absolutely help.

Read this:
https://bylinetimes.com/2023/02/17/small-boats-the-post-brexit-migration-story-the-media-doesnt-report/Small Boats: the Post-Brexit Migration Story the Media Doesn't Report – Byline Times

Exactly. On each thread on this. Have pp looked at those still within the EU and who still have the Dublin Agreement. It’s not resolving anything on this.

Unless they want to suggest where it has.

@BurntBroccolican you say which country within the EU is using the DA to resolve the migration issue?

They were arriving on lorries, as you pointed out. Some still do, but there was a crackdown after some awful deaths. The method of transport then largely changed to small boats.

I just don't see Brexit as the cause. I voted remain btw. Other EU countries are facing the same, nothing to do with Brexit.

I don't see any evidence to suggest that these migrants would not be arriving on our shores if we were still EU members.

About 10 years ago walking back from drinking in town I walked across a forecourt of a closed petrol station in the dead of night to piss behind a lorry.

I started pulling my pants down, crouched, turned to the right to kind of rest my head. And there was about 50 people staring at me. All sat around the edges of a huge articulated lorry with the back doors fully open.

It scared the living daylights out of me. I had to do a double take. I was literally metres from the lorry.

I never did anything. Just got up and skeddadled and ran down the road thinking I was going to be killed or kidnapped by dangerous traffickers. I think about it every time I pass. Should I have done something? These people seemed calm. Perhaps they were ok. Perhaps they weren’t. There’s no way the garage owners didn’t know. Traffickers living amongst us in quiet midlands Britain.

Theres a whole other world in this country that most people do not see. I have seen quite a bit since moving from the sheltered luxury of the Home Counties down south.

I don’t know why I am writing this but the talk of Lorrie’s reminded me again.

There's a way to avoid the authority. Once an immigrant is in southern Ireland. They can cross the border into NI catch a ferry to Scotland and they're in silently and invisibly. Mind you there's no accommodation and pocket money waiting.

I would have shit myself too!

One on my relatives was a long distance lorry driver throughout the 90s and 00s. He had lots of tales to tell about finding migrants in the back.

I remember crossing through Calais whilst towing a caravan back when they would sneak onto vehicles as they queued for the ferry. It was scary seeing them standing by the road waiting to sneak onto something. I was convinced the caravan was full of men all the way back to Britain.

Well so did probably they!

Imagine crossing half the world. Finally your first glimpse of Britain; its my backside 😭

No wonder half of them do not want to integrate. They probably think wtf is this depraved country we have ended up in! 😂

But in all seriousness I do hope they are ok. I forget about it periodically but now I am reminded it will probably haunt my conscience again for a while.

So to make your suggestion a bit more realistic, let's divide all immigrants into those 2 groups - the ones we want and the ones we don't - and only have the second group go on strike.

Nice try😂😂😂But no, that's not how strikes work.

The UK is still very welcoming to the former group.

Some are, some aren't. A PP on this very thread described the fact that nearly 20% of NHS workers aren't British as "an appalling situation" and "proof of absolute failure".

Why are you pretending you can't tell the difference? Don't you see that it's you who is being racist with that?

The UK is home to immigrants from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds and I believe that overall, they make a positive contribution to this country. I've no idea how I'm "being racist with that".

I think that successive governments have also believed that immigration has been a net positive for the UK economy, which is why they have chosen not to restrict it as much as they could have done.

You're being racist when you imply that most important thing about immigrants is their race - that they are non-British - and that this makes them all the same.

You're still doing it:
Nice try😂😂😂But no, that's not how strikes work

Why on earth would an Indian doctor strike for an asylum seeker from Eritrea?!? What do they have in common?

An Indian doctor or programmer has far, far more in common with their UK-born colleagues than with some unskilled random, just because they have also immigrated to the UK.

It's a huge failure of clear-thinking to conflate all immigrants. To consider them as a single group. To consider their economic impact only as a single block. If you're right that 'successive governments' have done likewise, then shame on them for not bothering to think beyond the very shallowest, skin-deep surface.

I don't find the 20 % of the NHS being fireign-born that surprosing, because it isn't far from the 16% of the general population who are foreign born.

We get extra medical staff. But we need them to care for all the extra people who have come alongside them.

Now 50% of London's social housing going to foreign-born heads of household is significant. Because social housing stock isn't very elastic to reflect the growing growth population: we just run out.

I don't believe the most important thing about immigrants is their race. That would be absurd when this country has immigrants from an enormous variety of ethnic backgrounds. But the title of this thread includes the phrase "the migrant problem" (not a nice term) and post after post is about "stopping migrants" and describing them as "an invasion". I haven't seen many posters make a distinction between immigrants based on their professions. Not that the UK only needs highly-paid professionals. Care and agriculture are two sectors that would be in dire trouble without immigrant workers. By the way, the last Eritrean I met was a taxi driver in Bristol. You might not particularly value his work, but he wasn't unemployed and in a good month he probably earns more than me.

Also, I don't like the implication on this thread that immigrants from the Middle East and Africa are a problem. A GP at my local surgery is Iraqi and qualified in Baghdad. Her English happens to be native-level. One of the obstetric consultants who treated me during my pregnancy is Egyptian. And our local hospital trust also has staff from Morocco, Libya, Mauritania, Lebanon, Iran, Turkey, Bahrain, the DRC, Nigeria, Ghana, Zambia and Kenya, to give just some examples. If all of the immigrants working in the NHS went on strike, we would definitely feel the impact. I'm still puzzled by your idea of a "more realistic" strike whereby the immigrants that you value would carry on working, but the ones you don't value would stop.

It's really very simple. You need to actually read the posts. People haven't virtue signalled 'of course this profession' is OK' because it's completely obvious from the concerns we're talking about and the solutions we're suggesting.

The only person conflating a hostel of 180 men - of nationalities documented as having up to 20 times the rate of conviction for sexual offences as British men - parachuted into a village of 2000 with your female Iraqi GP is you.

Why do you think she's more likely to go on strike than any other GP in your surgery if the UK brings in a law to refuse asylum to anyone arriving illegally (as Australia has fone successfully)? Why do you think she's less likely to be concerned about the exponential increase in illegal immigration and it's cost than any other UK resident and taxpayer? 20k in 2015 at a cost of £0.5billion, 40k in in 2019, and now £100k people per year costing £4billion and rising.

Why do you think she's more likely to go on strike than any other tax-payer if the UK tightens the conditions around skilled worker visas? Why do you think she'd be less concerned than any other parent about the reduced employment prospects for our young people caused by an influx of legal migration who don't have any particular skills, and a large number of dependents each? Why do you think she wouldn't be concerned that the teachers have no time for her bright, English-speaking, child, because they have to focus on the kids with EAL who can't access the lessons?

The only person pretending that there's no difference between different types of immigrants - the only person othering immigrants as being all the same - is you.

How about we stop treating invaders like kings when they get here? Even Macrom has told Starmer this because he doesn't want these unknown men in Calais either.

You know who really hates illegal immigrants (specifically all the economic migrant men rather than genuine refugees)? Those who've done everything right, come here legally and integrated.

Train drivers go on strike to get better conditions for train drivers, such as train driver pay and the continuing role of train guards.

Doctors go on strike to get better pay for doctors

Blue-eyed people don't go on strike to get better working conditions for blue-eyed people - because there are blue-eyed train drivers, doctors, dentists, shop assistants and unemployed people. They all have different needs, different pay and different leverage. What they have in common to each other and different to other people - blue eyes - isn't significant.

Likewise it doesn't make sense to suggest that all immigrants would go on strike. What would they be striking for?

Easier asylum conditions? That would suit asylum seekers, but would mean nothing to your Iraqi GP. Asylum seekers might strike for easier asylum conditions.

Not deporting non-citizens who have committed serious crimes? Pretty insulting to think your Iraqi GP would strike for that!

International undergraduares/language students might strike to be allowed to bring dependents on the study visa (postgrads still can). Not really sure why your GP would be more likely to care than my English one, if she studied in Iraq.

Assuming that all immigrants have the same wishes and common ground - and would strike for that - is a nonsense if you think about them as individuals rather than as a mass. It's you who is the racist for not thinking of them as individuals.

How can asylum seekers go on strike? They can't work anyway and we would happily pay for them to go back because the majority will be a huge burden on the state for life.

Then why did numbers rocket the moment we left the EU officially? why did the talk of Rwanda slow crossings and migrants here tried to get into ROI?

Why has former Tory home office minister, Chris Philp stated the loss of DA made migration worse, backed by Tory shadow chancellor Mel Stride?

Debunked? no it hasn't been at all.

Its irrelevant how many we sent back, the threat was there, on mainland europe, DA isn't a deterrent because of Schengen, deport someone, go back in or go to another EU country, we were never in Schengen.

Plus Brexit has led to a 4x increase in regular migration, 240 pre Brexit p.a to 1m pa, driven by dependents coming here and a Con Govt seeing it as a way to increase "GDP growth...." as they tried to make up for Brexit.

Up thread a pp mentioned "adults taking responsibility" its about time those responsible for & supported Brexit did the same.

It's the pp's scenario, mot mine. She thinks all immigrants should go on strike to teach us to be better people. But hasn't clarified what strike demands would be common ground for all immigrants to strike over.

Likewise it doesn't make sense to suggest that all immigrants would go on strike. What would they be striking for?

They wouldn't of course, but if they did (for example, to protest against the rise of Reform), it would show Reform supporters the value of the work they do. The idea that the country in general and the NHS in particular would be better off without immigrants is false.

It's really very simple. You need to actually read the posts. People haven't virtue signalled 'of course this profession' is OK' because it's completely obvious from the concerns we're talking about and the solutions we're suggesting.

Once again, a PP on this very thread described the fact that nearly 20% of NHS workers aren't British as "an appalling situation" and "proof of absolute failure".

By the way, why do people on this thread assume that asylum seekers have no skills, aren't motivated and will never make a positive contribution to society? Why are they all demonised as scroungers and sex offenders? In my experience, the vast majority of them want to work and when they are finally allowed to, they often take on the roles that most Brits don't want to do.

I’m sure some of the immigrants already here working hard and paying tax could be probably fed up with the current situation as well

Asylum seekers could stop in France - the people coming here are hardly asylum seekers, theyr'e people who claim asylum and chuck away their papers. And we believe them and let them stay

By the way, why do people on this thread assume that asylum seekers have no skills, aren't motivated and will never make a positive contribution to society?

Because that's what the Office of budget responsibility have told us. They cost 1.5 million per head

they often take on the roles that most Brits don't want to do

This is a common justification isn't it? Importing poverty at great scale is needed to facilitate mass worklessness.

We have many many people on benefits who we want to get back to work - fewer jobs available if we let the thousands coming in work.

I would be interested to know where you live.

I think the experience of many poorer people living in the Northern mill towns is very different.

Many immigrants have settled and contribute. But an awful lot live in their own parallel communities - they run shops and businesses serving the immigrant populations and do not mix much with locals. Many of the women speak no English and the local primary schools, which draw from tight geographical areas are 85% plus students from the same ethnic background - so not diverse at all. At secondary school level, the ethnic population in some schools is sometimes so large that white English families decide not to send their girls there - not because they are racist but because they know their daughters will never have friends outside school. Immigrant families discourage their daughters from mixing with white girls and these girls will never be allowed to visit/or be visitors to the others homes.

Councils in the SE are shipping newly arrived immigrants up north at a rate of knots because you can house people in a terraced house in Burnley at a fraction of the cost of accommodation in London. This is exacerbating pressure on already stretched educational and health care settings adding to tensions.

There is also a perception that policing of ethnic groups is done differently because the police do not want ‘to antagonize the community’ - a euphemism for being afraid of triggering a riot. And the appalling handling of the large scale sexual abuse of white English girls by some members of the immigrant population continues to generate resentment.