Labour voters….

[CurlewKate]

…… what do we do now?

😂at "winter cruise allowance".

So true in some cases!

The problem for Labour not true for all. After ignoring charities and any impact assessment it’s the local elections and threat to their own careers that will get them to shift.

Look at the polls and the local election results as that would give a clearer picture. The votes for Reform aren't going to be just an objection to illegal migration. I'd suggest its much bigger than that. It's an objection to legal mass migration over the last 20 years and community changes and pressures.

I agree with this

I agree that the cut off was in the wrong place, and they need to look at this. I do agree with the principle of means testing though. Richer pensioners don't need handouts from the government to subsidise their winter cruises.

They ignored anyone on this talking about poorer pensioners. And may reverse, so it’s their own doing if they get backlash.

100% - the 2024 intake were gifted a 100k a year job by the PM. Many of the ‘golden children’ were hand picked by him / the party. They quite like the 100k a year jobs and have realised if they continue in their newly won roles - towing the party line - they are toast next election.
They are fighting for their own jobs - and their priorities are to get themselves re-elected. There are enough of them who will, at some point, be prepared to break the whip to save their own skins - and that’s quite a lot of power to hold over the pm.

The party needs ‘wins’ quickly. They need to invest (and are doing) in green jobs of the future and work and skills. The housebuilding will pee off the nimbys but has to happen.
the NHS seems to be powering through waiting lists now using private health care to do so, but leave political purity to people not unable to work because they need an op.
This country, is the only country, that has exponentially increasing numbers of people on benefits. Why is that? Do we really want these people written off forever?
We all know someone (a relative/ a family at school) who have swung the lead to get benefits (I now await people steaming in with info of their incredibly difficult lives with incredibly complex illnesses and needs trying to shut this down - these people will not be affected at all). But Dave with the bad back, not worked in decades, has a mobility car and a decent(ish) life (not one I would want but still) the gravy train is coming to an end. If you are scrubbing toilets / driving a bus and seeing people who do nothing and have a comparable standard of living you should see your work starting to pay.

So while the messaging is terrible- the bones are there.
Also ‘it has been less than a year’.

Triple lock day the pension increased by 4% but that's never discussed.

@footpath

Not this again... most people haven't earned that equity & younger generations are paying for it.

How are younger people paying?

Do you really think Reform can deliver what they promise?

Until they are given the opportunity, it will never be known.

There is also a generational conflict between the old and the young that needs to be managed. So whilst WFA for the poorest pensioners should not have been withdrawn and especially not on such short notice BEFORE the winter, it absolutely should not be going to richer pensioners with housing assets and large pensions.

It’s lower and middle income people that don’t pay enough tax in this country when compared with other European countries. If we want better public services, everyone has to pay. This fixation on people earning £100k plus is contributing to our stagnating economy and encouraging highly skilled professionals to leave the country.

Lower and middle income workers people can't afford to pay any more tax. They're already paying ridiculously high housing costs, childcare costs, council tax, utilities, student loan repayments, NIC, etc. We can't keep squeezing the same people.

The main category of people who need to pay more tax are those with non-working income, i.e. interest, pensions, property rental income, etc. who are paying way too little.

We really can't justify a pensioner with total income of £50k from a mix of pensions, property let, interest and dividends paying less than a worker on £50k.

We need to "make work pay" to get more people working and more part timers working more hours. Hiking taxes on workers will do the opposite.

How are younger people paying?

Stagnant wages, higher taxes, later pension age, higher housing costs etc. As I said we haven't invested in young people.

Until they are given the opportunity, it will never be known.

How do you reduce taxes, immigration and improve services with an ageing population?

Exactly we can’t keep squeezing the same people. The people earning £100k have been squeezed and squeezed and now they are running (or not having children which is bad for our country in the long run). A couple earning £50k each take home approx £76k after tax. And they still get child benefit, tax free childcare and free hours at nursery. A single parent earning £100k takes home £66k but they don’t get child benefit, tax free childcare or free hours at nursery. We have to stop the people earning £100k plus can pay for everything attitude.

Lower and middle income workers people can't afford to pay any more tax. They're already paying ridiculously high housing costs, childcare costs, council tax, utilities, student loan repayments, NIC, etc. We can't keep squeezing the same people.

But the fact remains lower and middle earners pay less vs other countries.

I agree housing and childcare costs are ridiculous and wages are low but they aren't going to get any cheaper because of our changing demographics n

We can't keep squeezing the same people.

So why squeeze those earning 100k more?

The main category of people who need to pay more tax are those with non-working income, i.e. interest, pensions, property rental income, etc. who are paying way too little.

This is a huge part of the problem.

We really can't justify a pensioner with total income of £50k from a mix of pensions, property let, interest and dividends paying less than a worker on £50k.

But that won't go down well will it?

Single parenthood has always been fiscally unfair. I used to get really depressed when I allowed myself to think about how much better off couples were not just because they had two incomes but two personal allowances. I’d really like to see something done about that.

Indeed. The answer is to raise taxes on those who aren't paying enough compared to other people. So make everyone on the same income pay the same taxes. Scrap NIC and increase income tax instead. Or impose NIC on ALL income sources including pensions, property rentals, interest etc. Scrap the 0% interest band, the personal savings allowance band, and drastically reduce the tax free elements of ISAs. Someone with a million of savings/investments really shouldn't be exempt from tax on income and gains just because it's in an ISA wrapper - they can afford to pay tax on it and should do!

State pension is £230.25 per week, approximately £12K per year. Once you receive the pension it’s subtracted from the personal allowance, currently £12,570. So, pensioners have £570 allowance remaining.

If they receive rental income, it will be taxed at 20% or more depending on total income. The same applies to interest in savings.

The dividend allowance used to be £5000, but now it’s £500. Dividends are taxed at 8.75% or more depending upon total income.

However, dividends can only be paid if a company makes a profit. Increases in corporate tax means there is less money remaining to be distributed as dividends.

@taxguru I agree with you re rolling taxes up and that there is far too much burden on income but too many older people will be dead against and prefer to blame immigrants.

why don't people working above state pension age pay NI?! younger people will be lucky to see a state pension.

@taxguru

Someone with a million of savings/investments really shouldn't be exempt from tax on income and gains just because it's in an ISA wrapper - they can afford to pay tax on it and should do!

Even Tony Blair said that chasing the wealthy would be unproductive. Tax them too much and they leave the UK and then HMRC receives zero from them.

In 2023, it was estimated approximately 4,000 millionaires left the UK. In 2024, that number had increased to almost 11,000.

@footpath

Once someone had made 35 years of NI contributions, there is no benefit to make further contributions as the pension received will be the same.

As for younger people might not receive a pension, this is more reason not to apply inheritance tax in estates below £2 million.

I wish the Lib Dems were a serious party.

Well they’re serious enough to have 75 MPs, not that many fewer than the Tories now.

Once someone had made 35 years of NI contributions, there is no benefit to make further contributions as the pension received will be the same.

There is a benefit to the wider economy.... I will hit 35 yrs at 52 but my current state pension age is 68. I can't opt out of paying NI though can I?