Labour voters….

[CurlewKate]

…… what do we do now?

@AndImBrit

If someone had been a PAYE employee for the same company for several years, but then sat in the same chair doing the same job via a limited company, then yes it would likely be considered to inside IR35. The individual would then be subject to PAYE regardless of the limited company.

In the 9 years I have operated through a limited company, I have represented 6 different companies in 9 different countries.

@blossomtoes

Good points.

Also, I would add that just because an invoice states payment to be made within 30 days doesn’t mean that you will always be paid on time. Some clients, particularly the larger companies, have a 90 days payment period.

I agree. Comparing a freelancer/contractor with an employee isn't really like for like for many reasons, as you've highlighted. Re travel and accommodation, lots of umbrella companies (if you don't want the cost of your own ltd) won't allow expense claims anymore. Employees may be able to reclaim travel and subsistence from their employer, but an IR35 or umbrella freelancer has no one to reclaim from, other than themselves, so even if they get tax relief, they're still suffering a bigger net cost than an employee. A limited company contractor also has to pay their own insurance, accountancy fees, equipment, etc., that are usually either not necessary or covered by an employer for employees. IR35 goes too far the opposite way and penalises workers - normal employees don't have to pay employers NIC, but freelancers/contractors caught by IR35 have to pay EE AND ER NIC, which due to Rachel's hikes even even more costly and a "tax increase on workers" despite Rachel promising not to increase taxes on workers.

Labours stance on Gaza is not playing well with Muslims and unapologetically back tracking on trans rights alongside PIP cuts has probably lost them a lot of the Guardian-type metropolitan voters.

Rightly or wrongly, a vote for Labour would send a social signal that you’re an anti-immigration Terf who wants granny to freeze while those with disabilities and mental health issues are put in poverty or harassed by Liz Kendalls’s “job coaches,” and SEND kids are priced out of their fee-paying schools and home educators/academies are subjected to educational authoritarianism.

They are lucky that a lot of London Labour voters typically vote because they like their MP.

If the Greens and/or Lib Dem’s convince those MPs to change party, Labour is cooked.

So Starmer gave a certain “infamous” speech but a week later he enters into a deal with the EU?
Perhaps consider the actions rather than getting offended by the words which may have been a distraction.

Words are important.

Outcomes are more important than “words”/discourse.

Actions speak far louder than words.

I think the words are important. A Prime Minister using language like that normalises the negative and hostile way in which people speak about immigrants, and some people then feel that it is permissible to direct that kind of hostility towards others in their communities.

I have felt politically homeless for a long time, but lent my vote to Labour at the general election as it was the best option to get rid of our dreadful Tory incumbent. I don't honestly know what I will do next time. I can forgive mistakes and political ineptness, but I'm not sure I can forgive the lack of integrity that Starmer has shown by adopting this rhetoric. I expected better.

As a pp has said, it's too early to say how I'll vote at the next election. I like our local Labour MP, and I've written to him about Starmer's speech so I'll see what he comes back with. Realistically, the next election might simply be a question of voting for whoever is best placed to stop Reform. But with the Labour Party starting to sound like Reform, they're not exactly winning me over!

I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with you @MrsBennetsPoorNerves and you’ve articulated perfectly how I feel. The only difference is I’m a lifelong Labour voter and I gave my vote willingly last year. I too expected better.

I have also noticed that we usually agree!

The problem is that words have outcomes. Words give encouragement to the ill intentioned.

The problem is Keir Starmer has no real principles of his own. And he won't have written that speech himself. It will have been written by whoever is seeing how the wind is blowing regarding public opinion. Keir will just follow along if he sees votes in it.

Ironically, the only (leading) politician of real consistent conviction is Nigel Farage, no matter if you agree with him or not. Although he's never had power so we can't see if he's a twisty one, as well as all the other politicians recently.

And I have noticed you are both usually wrong 😉

Getting rid of reeves is a good start

I honestly can't see how taking stuff of pensioners disabled and care workers is a good look for starmer.

Get a penny extra on income tax for those earning over 100k and reinstate those changes.

And his immigration stance does denoting to address the small boats which is the elephant in the room. No one cares about legal immigration. Especially those that actually want to work in our care homes because brits certainly won't.

Labour have lost the plot.

I'm a floating voter. I voted for every party but reform will be in next time. That's definitely happening unless starmer kicks out reeves and does something remarkable.

I am a long standing Labour voter and am v disappointed and angry with recent decisions. Unless there is a massive turn around I will be voting for lib dems or greens in the future. The attack on disabled people and the shameful copying of reform style immigration policies are unforgiveable. They are also stupid decisions. Care workers are much needed.

People do care about legal immigration too. It's numbers overall that are putting pressure on this country. Importing people for "care work" is an unsustainable ponzi scheme and needs sorting out. Ironically with RR at the tiller, our reducing economic prospects should stop people being so picky about work that they are perfectly happy for immigrants to do as if they are some sort of sub class.

The care workers that my son has had under these schemes have been excellent - hard working, kind and committed. They pay taxes and contribute to society. Why is it that Labour want to welcome so called higher skilled people but don't want hard working people for a shortage occupation?

I am also astounded at the frankly inflammatory soundbites such as Island of strangers crap being peddled. Labour should be ashamed. I note that they are taking no notice of their mps. Let's hope they take notice of the countries as they will be shown what the electorate think of them at the ballot box.

I disagree. Every news show or interview I listen to the issue is never legal immigration

Unless the govt go down forced labour routes brits won't be queuing up to work in care homes. It will cost too much as we have a massive increase in over 80s coming in a few years and it's already too expensive.

Unless we are all willing to pay more taxes.

@MissJeanBrodiesmother
Yes I agree with you

I could not believe my ears when starmer announced this idea One of the most short sighted things I'd ever heard.

It depends what type of media you are listening to. Unfortunately we are all being fed what we want to hear depending on our own views.

Look at the polls and the local election results as that would give a clearer picture. The votes for Reform aren't going to be just an objection to illegal migration. I'd suggest its much bigger than that. It's an objection to legal mass migration over the last 20 years and community changes and pressures.

I do not think it is as bad as people are making out.
the country is in a mess. The winter cruise allowance has been removed from some (rightly so) it seems to be impossible on MN to have a sensible discussion around removing benefits from some people - so many people seem so very invested in no scrutiny of anyone claiming anything ever.
The messaging is terrible, that’s unforgivable.
I think there’s moves beginning to get rid of SKS / RR knowing how these things work and reading the room / mood music.
I will stay put - as I did through the Corbyn years.

I think all the things that need fixing have just been allowed to spiral out of control for too long now and probably are beyond fixing. Immigration, benefits, NHS, too many people not working, law and order seemingly out of control. No idea how we come back from the brink

The imo ridiculous outrage about means testing wf means we can't come back. The country is doomed, too many want someone else to pay.

No inheritance tax for estates up to £2 million. Assets that people have accrued throughout their lives have been paid from nett income after tax. So, to tax again seems double dipping.

Not this again... most people haven't earned that equity & younger generations are paying for it.

Due to high cost of housing, many young people can only get on the property ladder with help from their parents. If the current young generation are unable to accrue assets, how will they be able to provide for themselves in old age and retirement?

Housing shouldn't be an asset & work should pay.

The personal tax allowance has been frozen for several years. This drags more people into paying tax with those at the lowest end of earnings affected the most.

lower & middle earners pay less tax vs other countries.

Do you really think Reform can deliver what they promise? 😆