Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

What an odd statement. I am a recent migrant. I come from a culture where women are highly educated- my DH and I have 4 masters degrees between us. English is our first language. We are very familiar with British culture. We pay high taxes, volunteer and take no state support.

Tarring all recent migrants with the same brush is unwise.

@EasternStandard - somehow “The Government” always gets in, or should I say, we should be grateful that they somehow always get in. At this point, with the threat of Reform looming and the massive act of self harm that was Brexit, you have to choose the least worst option.

I don't care what level of education you have my statement still stands.

Oh ok. Good to see people unapologetic about their xenophobia, I guess

It won’t be for Starmer / Labour, I just can’t take the hypocrisy.

How and why have you presented yourself as the archetypal maligned immigrant on this thread? I ask because my dh is a Kiwi and manages to understand that when people complain about the changing shape and culture of Birmingham that they aren't complaining about a high preponderance of antipodeans firing up the bbq at every opportunity.

That old chestnut. It is not xenophobic to be sad that you don't recognise your home city due to out of control immigration. Are the Japanese xenophobic? No they just like to maintain a balance and their country has a strong identity and is admired.

I think our Armed Forces will struggle to recruit atm because who would put their life on the line for the UK as it stands?

But the above pp is. Also the new rules apply to all.

Yes, Starmer's rules apply to all. That's not the same as someone talking about the lack of integration of various communities and making yourself look like a victim of that concern.

Sorry when someone says that all new immigrants have ulterior motives, I am bloody well going to complain about xenophobia.

Whatever rocks your boat. I guess. Personally, it seems like being offended is your goal.

😂 this time last year he was the Messiah and could do no wrong. How happy and hopeful the future under Labour looked

Please go and visit Birmingham - then come back with your appraisal. I don't doubt for a moment that you're not contributing positively to the UK, but the point remains, some don't. I had a lovely interaction with a security guard in the town I've now moved to, who had been bussed in for the night to provide door cover, whereupon hearing his brummie accent I piped up that Brum was my home city. His response? " really, don't see many of you whites there now, it's our city now". All spoken with a chuckle in his voice and a look of triumph in his eyes. Unbelievable. How on earth do we try and all get on when some people refuse to and are outwardly hostile? I moved because these attitudes are all too prevalent, but it's gone from barely concealed intolerance to outward expressions of hatred. Growing up Brum had a great mix of diverse communities, everyone got along, but something's changed and been lost over the last decade.

I didn't say tthat they had ulterior motives I said they were impolite to migrate here when the UK is obviously struggling with immigration. That does not make me xenophobic!

Err, Starmer did actually distinguish in his speech between highly skilled uni educated migrants and lower skilled migrants. That was the whole point. Boris Johnson opened the floodgates on the latter, Starmer is just pulling back again. And of course Britain has always welcomed and relied on skilled net contributing migrants, very much so. Especially during the boom years in the 1990s. It is just that the country needs people who are likely long term contributors and not a drain on resources and takers rather than contributors. That was very clear in the speech. You need to contribute a significant amount of tax to be covering the cost of yourselves, in the long run. This is an economic decision primarily. Not sure why people are getting so offended. Probably because the usual suspects take it as carte Blanche to be xenophobic and racist, but it was not intended that way. That was clearly explained in the speech. It is just that many people do not actually bother listening to what politicians say, only the snippets blown out of proportion and quoted in the press.

We didn’t know what party would be in government this time last year. I don’t remember him being the Messiah either.

I think the new rules on indefinite leave to remain are equally applied through? Which, iirc, I think THoG had an issue with.

Yes that was my take too also agree with @Pollqueen

That has not yet been decided as the Government will apply for some categories and not others. Unless there has been an announcement otherwise it means that in principle it could and it will be retrospective ie if you entered the UK since 2020. People are going to have to wait

Ok. Impolite to migrate here.😀

I have to laugh at your comparison of the UK to Japan, not the first on these boards. I have lived and worked there, albeit some 15 years ago. The two are very different.

Japan does not have 54% of its population on benefits.
Japan does not have 83% of its tax paid by 40% of taxpayers.
Like the UK, Japan has a huge ageing population, but it is cared for by its own families ( yes, unpaid work by women), not by imported carers.
Japan does not have a huge obesity problem. I could go on....

@Araminta1003 I have read the White Paper. In my view, it creates a hostile environment for all immigrants, highly skilled or not. And my HR tells me they have no idea. My solicitor is not optimistic.

Fair point on stats. Someone mentioned Switzerland earlier. I’m wondering if Labour know what they’re doing.

Having to live somewhere continuously for 10 years before getting long term rights is not unreasonable though. 10 years is perfectly acceptable.

I agree. The Labour Party are behaving worse than the Tories. I feel very pissed off about it and won’t be voting for them again. Reform would be just about the worst thing ever though - god help us all (especially their supporters) if they get in…

This can only be answered by those making the decision. And high earners go elsewhere.

It is the standard in CH and Japan.

NZ, AUS and US are all at 5 years.