Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

He can stay it makes no odds to me. A GE is more the point.

Unhappy back benchers won’t help him generally which is also ok.

Re last time it’s a shame so many were so wilfully led by an ex strategist last time but there you go.

They "binned" Blair pretty quickly after he won his third GE for Brown to lose the next one. Blair would have stayed as PM if he hadn't been put under pressure to resign, orchestrated by Brown, but also supported by others!

Cameron resigned for his own reasons (Brexit), May resigned because she couldn't get a negotiated Brexit through Parliament.

The only ones "Pushed out" recently were Truss - who was grossly incompetent and should never have been voted in - massive mistake by Tory MPs. And Sunak, who was never even voted in - he became PM by default because potentially challengers were warned off. Neither ever really had a proper mandate to lead the party - both got in by virtue of failed "tactical voting". Truss got the votes because people didn't want Sunak, but he got in anyway by the back door.

The only leader deposed in the same style as Blair was Boris - i.e. pushed out by a Chancellor who wanted the job instead - Sunak and Brown did exactly the same thing and both suffered the same result - being chucked out after a short time at the next GE!

It 's very difficult to compare the last 2 years of the Blair/Brown Govt to what we have seen in the UK since 2016, in fact its irrational to do so.

Brown only just lost in 2010, with the LDs deciding who formed the next Govt -Sunak oversaw the annihilation of the Tory party - not comparable.

Truss was voted in by the membership, mostly older and definitely racist, Sunak was the best of a very poor choice but deemed unsuitable for the Tories at grass root level.

The in-fighting, the changes of leadership and ministers has been unprecedented, since 2016, there is nothing comparable.

May was done in by her own party and Johnson. You cannot seriously claim that the kind of infighting that lead to these litany of leaders in the last decade is comparable to Labour who led a stable government. Tory regicide in the last decade has ruined a competent party and made it the basket case it is today.

The last election of Badenoch tells you that they have nearly lost all political nous; another dire choice. Should have been Jenrick.

Given Brexit and Covid, I think exactly the same would have happened had Labour been in power.

You can't say the Tory party is racist. They've had two consecutive "coloured" leaders. Remind me how many coloured leaders the Labour party have had??

Not sexist either - again, the Tories have now had three female leaders. Labour have had none.

A chancellor and PM need to sort out differences if they’re to survive. Johnson’s spending at that point was along the same lines as Starmer’s island of strangers attempt at swaying voters.

There is a Labour politician who I think could connect more with the public, maybe he’ll be the leader after the GE.

If they're to avoid Reform winning, BOTH parties need new leaders BEFORE the next GE!

Maybe. But it looks like Starmer will stay no matter what, and some are keen for that.

He is increasingly unpopular though so I agree with you on that.

Universities and private schools contribute greatly to the attractiveness of English provincial towns: they are a cultural and economic force for the better, when managed correctly.

There are some great things about the UK. We should not be gloomy about it all.

I am impressed with Starmer’s international deals. Great. But tbh the hard yards of domestic policy is where he has to really focus. People want a better quality of life. They will vote Labour out if they don’t feel they’ve achieved that by 2029.

I can’t say I’m gloomy. Labour and Starmer might be about their polling though.

Brexit would never have happened under a Labour government. It didn’t have the equivalent of the ERG.

Brexit would never have happened without Blair’s deceit over the Treaty of Lisbon and, even more importantly, allowing hundreds of thousands of low skilled Eastern European immigrants in and not using the transitional arrangements to limit this.

The Tories may be easily blamed for Brexit but Blair has his fingerprints all over it.

Well we’re potentially about to have a similar environment for the next GE, which may prove unhappy for Labour.

The biggest mistake was not joining the single currency. Being a member had more positives than negatives and I believe the consequences of being out have finally sunk in. We are now completely vulnerable to global trade disputes.

This government is trying to renegotiate things but it isn't going to be easy. The best thing for everyone now would be the UK to join and fully accept the Euro.

A great deal can happen in four years if the last four are any indication.

Yes. Posters seem to think polling now will be the same at GE 2029.

Four years ago Cons were polling 46%, Labour 28% and Reform 2%.

So, plenty of time for things to change!

That's true, but the polling today can affect the direction of the government.

Do they? Which posters specifically have said they’ll be the same at the GE in 2029?

The polls aren’t the same as last week even. They keep going down for Labour and up for Reform.

Labour have lost huge amount of support since the GE, there’s no doubt it’s changing for them.

And the EU deal will just cement Reform victory

Yup, all the Tories need to do is get a new leader who will promise to deal with immigration and other societal problems and have some good ideas as to how that can happen, and both Labour and Reform will be toast. I can't see it happening though! The Tories seem intent on self destruction. Though there are murmourings that Boris could become leader again, and if that happens, then I think they have a very good chance of turning things around as despite his faults, he's popular and seems to be able to "tune into" the common man in the same way that Farage does.

They didn't even have that much support in the last GE. Starmer only won because the Tory vote collapsed and Tory voters moved to Reform or Libdems. Starmer's votes in the GE was very similar to Corbyn's!

Now it makes sense why Starmer gave Reeves the job. Because the would never be a threat to him. The only threat to Starmer is Wes Streeting and always has been.
I feel bad for Starmer because he gets criticised for not having “a personality“ and when he tries, he gets no end of criticism. Leave the guy alone, at least he is a family man and has some competency. Pretty much the same was true for Sunak, he was not a bad person at all and probably knew his stuff.
What can you do if the British electorate wants to be led by a clown like Johnson or Farage? Perhaps we should ask why we vote in clowns? Who is to blame for that?

Stuart Rose has just said how disappointed he is in the Conservative Party over their reactionary narrative regarding this deal. They should be ashamed. When did making money become such a dirty idea to the Tories? This will boost our exports. It’s good for us, good for the UK.

I don’t expect Reform to like it, but the Tories, bah.