Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

Maybe the EU will persuade Ukraine into taking migrants to rebuild the country, once there is peace. Something like that would make more sense.

I think Corbyn was old school and didn’t like the EU but is (or was?) strongly against setting immigration limits. This would have set him at odds with many immigrant communities in Labour held seats if he had influence 6 years after he said this.

The truth is that any party wanting votes will have to deal with immigration. Illegal or otherwise. Many voters don’t believe it’s sustainable but obviously rely on immigrants for lots of services. So they can stomach a status quo, but no more. It’s these voters Starmer is addressing.

Where's the money coming from to pay the billions we're already paying to house them,

We need safe, legitimate routes for asylum seekers- women and children as a priority, and deal with the thriving Black market in this country. The Mayor of Calais explained exactly why so many people want to cross the channel. They know border force is so crap and immigration officials are so under resourced that either they can just disappear as soon as they get here and will be picked up for illegal work or they can claim asylum and it will take so long to deal with their case there is little chance of them being deported.These people are often not the people most affected by war, they are people who's families are either rich enough to get the money to pay people traffickers or they are people who owe huge debts to people traffickers, which will need to be paid back by them working in the drug/sex trade or other criminal activity while living in shocking conditions. We have British people taking the piss too by working in the Black market while claiming benefits. Too many people taking the piss and playing the system means the system doesn't work for anyone.

How will mostly unskilled migrants rebuild the country?

If they're skilled they can get visas to a first world country. If they're not then they're coming here for the house, the benefits and might deliver a few takeaways on the side.

We accept more people with asylum claims than France. That’s what people are after.

No, we need a five year pause not more immigration! Are you determined to totally sink this country?

If that’s to my post I mean that’s why people come to the U.K.

We have higher rates of acceptance than some other countries.

I think we need an urgent halt of all immigration for a few years until we get the mess back under control and deport people who shouldn't be here.

Then press ahead with migration where we can be choosy with who we let in.

We could save an awful lot of money by allowing those people to work. Get some tax from them too. I guess that’s too sensible though.

I admire your optimism, as if it's so easy for someone with very little English or relevant work history to just " find a job and contribute"!

“How will mostly unskilled migrants rebuild the country?“

Most construction sites need clearers, cleaners, concrete mixers. That is where you start them off. A lot of the current migrants are doing unskilled labouring anyway, getting cash in hand jobs.
A lot of young currently unskilled men can learn quickly if taught anyway. They aren’t all lazy and stupid, far from it. The stupidity is locking them up with nothing to do. Bored young men who can go online is going to be a recipe for disaster.

You don’t need to speak any language to carry bricks or dig holes or do any number of manual jobs. Farmers complain they can’t get their crops harvested, no language skills needed for that. Of course that’s working on the assumption that they don’t have a word of English between them which is clearly untrue.

Of course you need a level of English ! Do you think anyone can just rock up to a building site with a shovel and start work?! What about h&s regulations? You need all types of permits - cscs cards aren't easy to obtain and the written test is bloody difficult. It's extremely naive to think this is a solution when you haven't examined the mechanics

@PlantFodder Sadly lots of posters are woefully out of date regarding building and site regulations. Most site jobs do require English - but that’s not necessarily the issue. It’s skills. Plus look at the outcry “they’re taking our jobs” from just about every plumber and electrician on a building site!

Language barriers on a construction site carries massive health and safety risks.

This.
X posted

Frustrating and indicative of how so many people are out of touch with the reality.

Sorry, in reply to @TizerorFizz

Sounds like building sites are over bureaucratised. Perhaps it’s time to rethink that for basic, unskilled labour. It certainly doesn’t apply to crop harvesting which was my other suggestion.

Over bureaucratised? It helps to stop people dying at work actually, but you crack on.

FFS

It might be a start to rethink what " basic, unskilled labour " actually is. There are very very few roles which could be described as such, and which don't require skills, training, experience coupled with proficiency in the English language. Crop picking may fit the bill, but as it's seasonal it wouldn't allow for sustainable employment.

Once you allow them to work the numbers will increase exponentially.

Why?